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How young is too young?

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How young is too young?

Jody LeCompte
15 Dec, 2007 - 02:33 AM
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I'm not sure if this is exactly the best forum, but being a PHP coder exclusively, my examples are most relevant to this forum.

Theres talk here and there round and about DIC regarding how young is too young for learning a programming language. Personally, I started learning HTML/CSS to modify my Neopets profile at the age of 7-8 and started learning PHP to modify my personal website's bulletin board at around 12. Looking back over six years now, I've helped out on many a project and written many a great snippet/function/library but never finished a product? Why?

Problem solving and attention span.

Kids, even kids thrilled with computers and the prospect of being a great programmer have the same attention span. At 15 years old do you think I was ready to tackle the challenge of writing a bulletin board to the degree forums like Invision Power Board, which i use an example because earlier versions were written by one programmer? I was looking at an enormous pile of code, packed full of everything imaginable, when I didn't even have the attention span to finish my homework on time?

Secondly, the main problem isproblem solving. Teenagers are notorious for dragging out and overcomplicated EVERY SINGLE aspect of their ENTIRE lives. Why would programming me any different? As a younger programmer I often thought, well that sounds like a complicated idea so obviously the code will be very complicated and in effect I looked over the simplest of solutions.

I'm going to use my latest code versus my old code from the aforementioned bulletin board code I wrote several years ago. I was writing a library for mySQL usage usage and wanted to eliminate automatic return of mysql errors so I could ultimately process any errors after initial operation into two functions depending on the level of functionality left in the application, or rather the depth of the malfunction. So my thought was, "Those errors are going to occur regardless" and thusly finding out if an error had been printed was the means of error reporting I chose by literally checking to see if anything had been printed. I used the following code, I included the full function for the sake of making a later point.

CODE

function query($sql)
{
   global $STD;
   ob_start();
   $result = mysql_query($sql);
   $error = ob_get_contents();
   ob_end_flush();
   if(strlen($error) > 0)
    {
      return($result);
    } else {
      $STD->error('There was a problem with the database');
    }
}
?>


Which as you can tell by looking at it, didn't actually even work. Not to mention, wheres the actual functioning that makes the product worth buying? If I cut corners there, what else will I leave out to save time and get a half-ass product on the market.? My inability to semi-complex problems with simple solutions led me to a complete dead-in and then I later shot myself in the foot by not having the attention span or dedication to fix the problem or find another solution and later stripped error handling from my database handling library completely. Which in case your wondering, would ruin the professionalism of a product I actually intended on selling.

I gave up on coding for nearly 3 years and have just started again writing a freeware blogging software after fiddling with every major blog software both free and commercial and feeling as though the user interface was both terrible aesthetically and from a usability aspect. In my database handling class which went down on file a few days I used the following function:

CODE

   function query($sql)
    {
          global $_FUNC;
      $this->qcount++;
      if($this->prefix != 'LMB_')
       {
         $sql = str_replace('LMB_', $this->prefix, $sql);
       }
      $qtime_start = explode(' ',microtime());
      $starttime = $qtime_start[1].substr($qtime_start[0],1);
      $this->result = @mysql_query($sql)
      if(!$this->result)
       {
         $_FUNC->error(mysql_error());
       }
      $qtime_start = explode(' ',microtime());
      $endtime = $qtime_start[1].substr($qtime_start[0],1);
      $this->qtime = $this->qtime + bcsub($endtime, $starttime, 6);
    }


Which not only works, but works in a much more efficient manner, and has many more of the features a professional product generally requires because I not only had the mindset to think "Theres always a simpler way" but by also having the attention span to sit there and think the whole function out rather than just winging it for the sake of quicker progress and blind-eying later headaches.

Its been 6 years since I started coding my first major application and I've gotten furthur in a couple days with my first big solo project than I ever have on projects I started earlier in life, which I believe is due to to the same points mentioned in this post. For the sake of reinteration, problem solving and attention span.

So in conclusion, how young is too young? Discuss.

This post has been edited by Jody LeCompte: 15 Dec, 2007 - 03:21 AM
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snoj
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
15 Dec, 2007 - 08:06 AM
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Moved to computer science software development.

~skyhawk133 edit: moved to software development instead wink2.gif
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Jody LeCompte
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
15 Dec, 2007 - 08:54 AM
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Sorry about that skyhawk, wasn't entirely sure where to put it.
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Martyr2
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
15 Dec, 2007 - 09:37 AM
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Well first of all I am a strong believer in that age is irrelevant on the Internet and in field as long as the person can be professional and understand what you are telling them. I say this primarily because of one man, a guy that went by the name of sphere back when I started my mIRC script group in 1999.

The guy (or should I say kid) was about 13 and an accomplished skater and even a pretty good scripter/amateur programmer. Even though he was something like 12 years younger than me, he did have a firm grasp on the subject and did create some good code.

He also spoke with the understanding of what he was doing and what I was telling him. Since then I have met people around the net that were similar. I don't think a simple thing like age should slow anyone down from expressing their ideas and growing in the field of programming. It is all about the thoughts one has. If a good point is made, who cares if they are 3 or 30. A good point is a good point.

We should keep an open mind and not let someone's age purely dictate the quality of their ideas. Humanity has made such mistakes in the past and who knows where we would have been if we had only listened.

If they act mature and can express themselves adequately, they should get a fair shake. I know I have gone through this my entire life. In my early teens I understood things that most people wouldn't, but no one, even my own parents wouldn't listen. Ideas need to be encouraged.

Thanks for the post and keep up the good work you are doing. Never give up. smile.gif
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RodgerB
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
18 Dec, 2007 - 06:10 AM
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Well I am currently 14, I joined </DIC> when I was 13, and started programming in Basic when I was about 7-8 (as my first programming language, about the same time you were learning html/css).

I started programming in a Game Community where the game and it's possibilities excited and intrigued me. After learning PAWN (Small C), I was a part of various projects and development activities for the game. I left as I felt I was in a rut, because I believed my skills weren't being put to good use.

I joined </DIC> in hope I would have a fresh start and something to look forward to. Programming really captivated my mind, and I hope I enjoy it as much as I still do now, and with the help of </DIC> I have found purpose. So in my case, I just use programming as a past-time, I live breathe and eat it really (I tend to read C++/VB.NET books while I'm eating breakfast to feed my addiction before school tongue.gif, I'm such a junkie sad.gif).
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lockdown
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
18 Dec, 2007 - 07:00 AM
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I think age dose not factor what a child can learn or understand. Their was a fairly young kid last year that won a programing event (Think it might have been the google thing). He developed a full web browser that was fully functional and pretty nice from what I heard.

It might kinda sound cheesy but if you have the motivation to do/learn something normally can you can accomplish that.
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alpha02
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
19 Dec, 2007 - 09:29 AM
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There's no minimal age, it depends on how well you can learn. I started JavaScript when I was 12, and then started PHP without trouble. I tried Java, but I couldn't figure out how the Hello World program worked. I re-tried Java after learning VB by the age of 15 and I managed to learn it. The point is: learn the language when you're ready.
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Welli
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
19 Dec, 2007 - 09:58 AM
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This topic is inviting people to 'boast' about how intelligent they are by saying they were writing game engines in C++ by the age of 3.. rolleyes.gif
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Programmist
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
19 Dec, 2007 - 02:43 PM
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QUOTE(Welli @ 19 Dec, 2007 - 11:58 AM) *

This topic is inviting people to 'boast' about how intelligent they are by saying they were writing game engines in C++ by the age of 3.. rolleyes.gif

Game engine by age 3? Please. I'd already written my first C++ compiler by the age of 2. wink2.gif

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ap0c0lyps3
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
11 Jan, 2008 - 01:19 AM
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I'm also 14 and I started basic when I was 9 (Before that I didn't use the computer much).
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TheMagnitude
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
12 Jan, 2008 - 04:14 PM
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How people start anything to do with programming or scripting at the age of 7-8 or even 9 just eludes me. When I was that age I was playing with my toys and things, a computer didn't even enter into my head!

I started using Game Maker when I was 12/13 and created an AI system and a TCP/IP multiplayer game. Now im learning PHP and C++ at 16 which is fun fun fun!
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RodgerB
RE: How Young Is Too Young?
12 Jan, 2008 - 04:21 PM
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I was incapable of performing any mathematical equations, with exception to the smaller numbers like 5+2. I didn't really understand the language flow, and why things did what they did, however I understood the rem keyword laugh.gif and that setting a new resolution would alter the size of my PSET's! tongue.gif

It took me a couple of years to learn how languages worked, why they worked, and all the nifty tricks you can do with them. smile.gif
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