We have all heard the stories of the overprotective IT Tech parent installing key loggers, filters, and all manner of monitoring and control warez. Watching everything their kid does, at all times.

Is it an overprotective violation of privace? Or the parents right to protect there kids? Both.

I want to open a dialogue on this subject.

First let me just say, that if i didn't have open internet access, i would know nothing about tech, programming, and i would know allot less about philosophy, or my own sexuality.

My parents would be like : "OMG! Hes reading about homosexuality, atheism, evolution, and hacking!!! NO! Its SATAN!" Or something along those lines.

My freedom to Rome the infinite library known as the internet in a liberal way has made me who i am. Allowed me to meet great people, and learn allot. More than would have been possible in school. Allowed me to gain skills i probably would have gained otherwise.

In short, my exposure, in an uncensored way has made me a better person. Of that, i have no doubt at all. And i know that the knowledge i have gained, some of it is for some reason taboo.

Just educate them to the danger, then let them learn, give them access to all the knowledge that humans have.

After all :

Information is Free.


What do you think? I feel many of you will disagree. :-)

Depends on the kid. My daughter I wouldn't let go near the internet unsupervised, and not by keyloggers or some other preventative measures. No I mean physically watching her as she's on the computer. That's because she has a habit of being very ... annoying. I do have a character that I let her create on the game that I play, and she can have pretty much free reign of the character, chatting, etc, as long as she is not annoying someone I'm fine with it. When she gets older, I'm sure, I'll be faced with letting her on unsupervised or not, but for now she's wayyyy too young for me to let on unsupervised. I know, I may be considered way too protective of her, but I'm not going to have her getting into trouble online or causing any.

This post has been edited by tody4me: 26 Jun, 2008 - 08:21 AM

I'm going to have to go with age on this one. I think that the younger a child is (1yr-13) I would try to watch what they are looking at just because at those ages i don't want them coming across a porn site or something.

But i think that in their teenage years I would open it up to them and allow them to have the freedom to look at whatever they like. Now of course if I notice they are looking at satanic sites and reading how to make bombs out of clorox they i would probably step in and start to watch what they are doing.

The only reason i would watch what they did is to see what my kids WANTED to learn about and what they are interested in. You can find out a lot about a person from seeing what they look at on the internet.

Clorox bombs? you act as though someone made an Anarchist's Cookbook os something.

I agree with the 13 year thing, and by age 15 you shouldn't worry at all what they do unless you know what it is they will do unsupervised beforehand from age 13. If they haven't made Clorox bombs or anything by the age of 15 then I think it's safe. If you don't let them they're just going to go to a friends house.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 26 Jun, 2008 - 10:22 AM

With any child what you have to make known is that it's your home and it's your rules. Raising a child isn't a democracy and that's a common misconception. Make your child aware of the fact that he/she has no privacy period. That's what being a family is. It means no privacy. If you can't handle that, then you shouldn't be a part of one. If you live life honestly and justly then any action you've done or taken you shouldn't have a problem with someone in your family taking a look at it. If you feel a need to hide something from your family then chances are you're well aware you did something wrong.

@Delta_Echo If you hide something from your own parents about what you do online then chances are you're culpable of misleading them via misinformation of what you do. Families are a hassle, but if you're man enough to do something you should be man enough to declare it.

@tody4me Better to be overprotective than underprotective of something that I gather is very precious to you.

@jjsaw5 & WolfCoder The ages you've stated while they do show you if a person is prone to wrongdoings they don't take into account a person's sexuality. Women tend to develop quicker than males and around the age of 15 is a common age for boys to take a much stronger interest in girls. That means that all that internet pornography might be where they first want to go browsing for. While some people here may be advocates of viewing pornography an such, there are many psychological studies which highlight that viewing it at a young age can have a detrimental effect on a person's psyche.

Shorthand answer, when I was that age I didn't use or need a computer. I was busy running around playing outside. If your child needs the computer for information of some sort, you can be their interface for it, by simply asking "whaddaya need?" and finding it for them. Computers are important in the modern world, but in terms of what you need to learn to work with them the internet isn't a MUST HAVE. Knowledge has been available before the advent of the internet. It's called books, typically found in a library.

This post has been edited by grimpirate: 26 Jun, 2008 - 11:24 AM

I too agree witht he age thing, though I have a slightly different approach to the whole idea of what kids should b eallowed to look at on the web and what they shouldn't based on age. I don't think it is necessary for children to even have an internet connection until they reach 3ish years of age. In fact I didn't get one until the end of eigth grade (14) and everything has worked out fine for me. On the other hand, my sister got hers at an earlier age and my parents have been regretting it ever since. She has had so many viruses and other shit on her computer (even wtih virus protection software) that her computer has had to be completely wiped 3 or 4 times. Because of her lax internet surfing my parents have wondered multiple times whether or not they should install a big brother program for her. To make sure everything wis kept safe(er).

I think that depending on the age and maturity that a child gets to have an internet connection, they may need to have some sort of suporvision while on the web. Children tend to be far to trusting of what they find on the web and, in this day and age they don't deserve to be llowed on the web, let alone have free reign over what they are allowed to look at until they have displayed that they are mature enough to handle the responsibilities which come with being unleashed upon the world.

Simple. If the parents are paying the bill, they hold the right to block, log, & restrict all that they want. Thinking you have rights to something that exists, without reason is wrong. If you pay the bill for the internet, then you should be able to do what you please. If it's your job, & you signed the contract & agreed to the Terms of Service, then tuff. Again, you don't have right to something that isn't yours. If the technology belongs to someone else, & the bill belongs to someone else, then it isn't yours & you make do. Use it or don't.

Now 3 years old, even in these times, is still a bit young in my opinion. My son is going on 2 in august, and he's not going to even touch a real computer connection until I am confident that he at least understands the alphabet and is potty trained... gotta have priorities . My daughter is 10, and she just started using the internet this last year (when she was 9 I started her on some of it, barbie.com, disney, etc). My son has his own keyboard, all he does now is just bang on the buttons and steps on it, but he'll learn soon enough.

This post has been edited by tody4me: 26 Jun, 2008 - 12:34 PM

Its not as simple as declaring it. My parents are.... well, basically zealots. And many of my relatives have very bigoted and homophobic views. (That's what I get for living in Louisiana)

Add that to very different political views and views on religion, being transparent with them would be... difficult.

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As for the internet and the dangers, porn can be extremely damaging (if the papers that I have read from the APA are true). My suggestion on that, teach them the dangers before they get to the age that they would seek it.

I am sure that my views will change if I ever have a kid. But even then, i will still support
freedom of information. But I hope that my kid won't have to be stealthy about it.

Information is like anything else - it is not in and of itself evil. It's how the end user applies it/interprets it that makes it good, bad, or neutral. Information on how to build a bomb is fine for me, because I don't give enough of a rats ass about anything to make use of one. Information does not create problems - interpretation of that information creates problems. Reading about alternative lifestyles will not turn you into a homosexual - you either are or you aren't. Alcohol does not make you an alcoholic - you are either able to moderate or do not have the inner strength to do so.

Granted, a young child is likely not developed enough to properly interpret information.

Conversations like this always remind me of a few years ago - there was a movie (The Program, I think) in which there was a scene where some young men lay on the highway in the path of oncoming cars to test bravery. In the town in which I live, some teens did this for real after seeing the movie, and one of them died as result. I remember seeing his mother on television saying that if not for the movie, her son would be alive. I wanted to find her and tell her that if her son lay down on the highway because he saw it in a movie, chances are he wasn't going to be curing cancer anyway.

I agree with that. It may not be nice, but it's true.

In the long run, it boils down to this. You raised your child(ren), you instilled the ethics, you taught him / her / them right from wrong. If you believe you did a good job, trust your child. How can you expect your kid(s) to believe in themself if you don't.

Talk to your kids, take part in their life. Communication is key. Of my twelve kids, and two wives, they all know, at any time they can come to me for advice, to ask a question, or talk about a problem. Sure, I have to take a deep breath sometimes, but I don't "jump" on them. We talk it out, and I explain to them their options. Around age ten, they start to make their own choices. I just try to guide them. The thing is, you can monitor them all you wish, they have computers at the library, friends houses, and some kids know how to use a boot disk... If they want to do something wrong, they'll find a way...


Here is a really simple test. If you know your child is online, walk up, pull up a chair, sit down, and ask them what's up. If they try in anyway to hide what they are doing, it's one of two things. They are writing/reading something personal and private, in which case you should respect it, and leave, or they're doing something they feel you may not approve of...
Make your choices from there.

You see I would let me child do what they want no matter the age because I would want them to learn from there mistakes not mine. And if your going to try and stop them from doing something there going to be rebellious and try to do it more than just letting them do it.

Let's not get carried away... I'm not going to let my post her name, phone number, and titty shots on the web because she thinks it's cool! I don't care if she is 11 years old...



What parent wants their kids to make mistakes? They will make them, don't get me wrong, but if I can stop a child from making the mistakes I made, I certainly would.




That's not true.

If you have an open line with your child, honestly, a true to heart open line, and the trust, and respect has been instilled, they will believe you when you tell them this is possibly a bad choice, for the following reasons... blah blah blah... then they will either do it anyway, or they won't. None of my children has tried to rebell. They actually listen, then a bit more informed, make their choice.

We have the same experience Whizzy.

I think if you raise someone properly you shouldn't have to worry about them on the internet when the time comes. I was raised properly because I've never actually used the internet for porn ever, and also I was taught to learn things on the internet critically.

I think the latter is very important, the child you are letting on the internet should know that what they read, see, and experience on the internet is almost never true- and should be able to keep it from influencing themselves negatively. Actually my school taught this by requiring books to be used as sources and to have sessions on how to find reliable information on the internet. I know this because I can see how easily I could have been misled if I had not been taught how to check sources.

If you're able to know what is right and wrong for yourself, and I agree it might differ from what the parents think, especially if they're views are extreme like if they're zealots and that you should be able to think for yourself as delta said, but I also agree with Whizzy in the fact that you should have the bravery to not hide it and to be willing to show to said parents.

Also, without the internet are you sure you would be a different person Delta? Be sure about what you say.

Like I said: you'll end up at a friends house if you're under 18, on campus if you still live with parents but at dorm during school, or just plain flat out have your own apartment and internet connection, as Whizzy said, the child will get internet somewhere just make sure you teach them what you can.

To the kiddies...

One thing that Wolfcoder said,

I have to give a

As you progress into adulthood, one thing you need to take with you is the ability to admit your short comings. Everyone makes mistakes. Yes, even your perfect father and mothers make mistakes. They simply hide this from you in an effort to appear flawless in your eyes.
Live by this rule. -- If I am adult enough to do it, I am adult enough to own up to it" --
You will find as time goes on, that people will respect you more for admitting a mistake, than if you don't. No matter how bad it is, remember, tomorrow is another day.
So if you are peeking at porn, and dad catches you. Own up, admit it, take the months grounding from the computer, that's the chance you took when you logged in to the bimbo site.

This post has been edited by Whizzy: 26 Jun, 2008 - 05:47 PM

@ For the parents:

If you caught your son who were peeking at porn don't take the months grounding your son from the computer, because you were also doing that when you were that age.

This post has been edited by nirvanarupali: 26 Jun, 2008 - 07:48 PM

To Nirvana,

AMEN!

To everyone else,

Thanks for your input. Now lets talk about another privacy concern. Keyloggers....at work.
Some would say there's a question if its right. I say, there is no question. They pay you, they give you what you need to work, not to chat, or download porn. Simple, clear cut.
Anyone disagree?