(For those that scan read posts, please can you read all of it as it contains stuff to answer my question all the way through)

Well about 3 weeks ago I decided to learn a programming language.

I started off with C++ for a week but after reading some articles I found out that Java was going to be easier for someone that has never programmed before (I only know HTML & CSS).

So for 2 weeks I've been learning Java but I have found it quite hard. I get the jist of it but it does baffle me at times trying to do even the simplest of things.



The above Java code I can easily manage however that is about as far as it goes. So although the above is simple I don't understand anything more complex than that.

So I was wondering...

Should I stick with Java and just keep re-reading the same tutorial/s until I understand it or should I switch to ruby which at a quick first glance seems simple?

OR, should I change to ActionScript as I do have Adobe CS3 Flash, it's just I'm not good in any aspect of Flash from AS to drawing.

If it makes any difference, I want to be able to make online games with it.

P.S. Please don't say a game will take you ages to make and I'm setting my goals far too high. That's my goal and I want to complete it - I just don't know down which path to go.

This post has been edited by Kingbradley6: 16 Aug, 2008 - 07:07 AM

Pick whichever one you like best - there really isn't a 'best' language. If you're working on making a game, the languages that are typically chosen are C++ or Java.

Okay let me re-word it...

Out of Java and Ruby what is the easiest to learn and quickest to develop programs* with a GUI?

* = Doesn't have to be a game

(C++ isn't in it as I find the memory business too hard)

Do you want easy learning and programming or you're just lazy ?

I'm not lazy I just want a programming language that is easy to learn so I can start developing programs quickly.

This post has been edited by Kingbradley6: 16 Aug, 2008 - 11:45 AM

Ruby is easy ot learn, easier to code than Java, C/C++.
But the proccess of learning programming depends on you.

PS: http://www.dreamincode.net/forums/showtopic59830.htm

This post has been edited by MitkOK: 16 Aug, 2008 - 01:43 PM

Java can have a GUI set up and running a lot faster then C++; I can't speak to the ease of Ruby, but python was pretty easy as well.

Ruby GUI Toolkits:
- Tk
- wxRuby(wxWindows/wxWidgets)
- Ruby/Gnome(GTK)
- Ruby/QT
- RubyCocoa ( for Mac OS X, even on iPhone )

and many more.

Aside from GUI Toolkits there's Java implementation of Ruby ( JRuby ) and .NET implementation of the Ruby ( IronRuby ).

This post has been edited by MitkOK: 17 Aug, 2008 - 12:53 AM

Programming is more based on logic. Once you learn one language, it is fairly easy to move to another language simply by learning the syntax. There isn't a better language overall, but some things are more suited for certain development types. You wouldn't use PHP to create a game...

Read a little bit about the logic of programming and you should soon be able to create programs no problem.

The best programmers don't think about the language that they program in before they start programming, they pick the language best suited for the job. If I wanted a simple email script for a form filled out by a user on a website, I highly doubt that I would create a Ruby on Rails application to use a mail function. PHP is more suited for a small job like that, and can be tied in easily without modifying the rest of the website.

What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't get caught up in one language is better than another. Computer logic is all the same. Different languages, simply put, only change syntax of logic. (there are other differences, but this is the main point I'm trying to make.)


With that said, what are you trying to develop? Desktop application? Web interface? Don't limit yourself to one language.

Cheers

But surely it is better to know one language inside-out than many not very well?

On that note, what is better...

Ruby OR Pascal???

umm, I am new here and all, I do believe that the guy just said, no one language is better.

In, my school I got started out with a book on ruby, so far I think its a pain, but thats cause I don't have logic or something and I am a complete beginner, I don't even know how to ask questions (noone understands me). it just makes me want to smash my brains in.

Perhaps technically no-one langauge is better but then if that was true then I could make the next Call of Duty with Pascal (obviously not possible for many reasons).

Ruby is actually very easy once you understand the simple algorithm of programming. Don't smash your brain just keep on trying. You will get there in the end and just try and ask questions otherwise ask them here!

The correction is, no-one language is better than another just one language can be suited to a particular job more than another.

Here is the low down...

1) Ruby is easier for the beginner to learn because it reads easier, is very flexible with syntax and can be straight forward. Problem is that it doesn't have its own GUI setup.

2) Java has the GUI (using java.awt and javax.swing packages) and is more powerful than Ruby and a lot bigger than Ruby. It has more principles that apply to object oriented programming as you would see in other languages (which you will need to learn eventually) as well as more support. Problem is that it can be a more cryptic at times and the syntax is more rigid.

3) As noted earlier, Java is NOT necessarily faster than C++ (keep in mind that Java came out of C++... ever notice the similarity in syntax?) and actually C++ can be drastically faster than Java because it doesn't run in a virtual machine and can be native. Not saying Java is better or worse than C++ but know where they are coming from before making a generalization like that.

4) As for game making, if you want a visual game then Java will probably be what you want to use. Ruby lacks the graphics power but could make great little text based games.

5) Ruby is an interpreted language which means that it is executed on the fly as it is being read while Java is compiled which means, in many situations, it is faster once compiled because it runs straight from memory.

Personally I don't think the two are really at all equals because they have radically different purposes. Java is more of a compiled full blown desktop and applet language while Ruby is an interpreted off the cuff typically web useful language (ruby is typically ran on rails). They have their own strengths but if you are just wondering which can be easier to learn, Ruby would have a significant advantage due to its lack of strict syntax, easy to read commands and quick development time for small programs.



This post has been edited by Martyr2: 13 Oct, 2008 - 12:36 PM

For what it's worth, I would look at different games, scripts, apps and check out the code which produced the ones you like. If you like an online game, then see how it was written and emulate it, hack it about and make changes. You learn from breakage and repair.

For example, I admin forums, so I learned php. There are certain ruby Linux applications i like so I learned ruby. Back in the day when I wanted a website, I learned html. Just learn the code for the result that you want.

I am a proud jack of all trades, master of none. There is a saying that says "knowing a little about a lot is dangerous", well I never killed anybody with a badly coded forum script

This post has been edited by richs-lxh: 9 Nov, 2008 - 05:00 PM

OP, what do you want to do; become a programmer or write a program?

A language like Ruby might have you doing more complex things quicker, but that is not really a good thing. You will not get too far if you do not learn how things work before using them. With Ruby and Rails you could be writing full web applications in very little time - BUT - you will have no idea what your doing. What does that accomplish?

You say that the "memory stuff" in C++ is "hard". But that memory stuff has to happen whether you like it or not, and you cannot really be a 'programmer' without knowing what your telling the computer to do!

Basically what I'm trying to get out is learn from the ground up, not the other way round.

So my advice: learn C. Yes - plain old C (not C++). Let me explain. C is a simple, lean, and easy language. You expressed confusion doing simple things in Java, this is because Java is designed to solve a lot of complex problems, C, on the other hand, is designed simply for the manipulation of the machine. Please, start with C, learn how things work, and then move to higher level languages when you just need to get stuff done, or start solving more complex problems.

i just soo understand you. hope someday i will be able to ask the questions properly. and the real pain is-as soon as you start learning one language there are milion more out there.

that can get pretty confusing. i feel that all i do is learning, and none of the languages i have studied i donno "inside out". i really dont know how many years that might take.

yeah like i wanted to make iphone apps, so i started to learn objective c, sure i've never programmed in c before, but i did it anyway (gotta start somewhere) if you want to make a website, learn about dynamic webpages with AJAX, Javascript, PHP. If you want to make an application then learn java or c or something.

its true that a lot of languages are simliar such as java or ruby each can just be used differently to accomplish a certain goal under a large tree. so just learn java, and then when you have a different project you can easily transition onto a different language that is better suited for that project.

plus java is important to learn for many different reasons, so start there, plus it's not as "hard" as c.

I think you’re in the same boat as I am.
I want to make an online game as well.
What has worked for me, is starting off in Auto Hotkey.
It is simple and will get you to understand how things work.
Has good documentation.
But for making online games you want C++ or C#.
I will add if you are going to make the game bye your self, you are
going to spend more than 3-5Yrs on it.
Thats what I think.


This post has been edited by davidburger: 10 Feb, 2009 - 04:40 PM

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Java isn't tough. It's my first language and well I'm learning Ruby now and it's a breeze because the concepts are familiar, only the syntax is different.

What you have to learn is the logic behind it. I'd say stick with Java because it's so widely used and just find a good book (http://www.ebooknetworking.com/books/013/149/big0131492020.jpg) if you find the learning difficult.

I LOVE that book.