[BlakeJustBlake]

For the past year I've seen overwhelming reasoning for why I shouldn't bother getting a degree, yet I still try and pursue one to please my parents and to confirm the notion that to be successful you need a degree. But for the two years I've gone to college I've learned very little, and taught myself much much more. College has done nothing but stress me out and only return to me bad grades.

You may say: "Well, it just sounds like you're not trying." And you're right, I'm not trying, I've been given no real motivation to try other than the fact that I'm just wasting money. So, why should I even bother going anymore? I could be spending the time doing actual work, gaining experience, learning even more on my own, an approach that I seem to be more open toward.

Anyone have any opinions or experience either way?

[Matmus C]

what are the overwhelming reasons why you shouldn't bother getting a degree?

This post has been edited by Matmus C: 09 May 2009 - 11:34 PM

[no2pencil]

If you can get a job (that you are happy with) without a degree, & it won't cost you promotions or climbing the company ladder, then there really isn't any reason to continue.

[baavgai]

The real reason to get a degree is not job training, it's proof of endurance. Perhaps personal bragging rights, but the only person you're ultimately impressing is yourself.

It doesn't say you've been well trained for a certain job. Rather, it says you managed to stay focused enough for two, four, or more years, and make it out with some kind of stamp of approval.

The education is a foundation. In truth, you're lucky if you use even a fraction of what you learn in school. And the stuff that seems useless now can come in handy later, you just never know.

If your reason for quiting is driven by some other fleeting opportunity, then that could be valid. If it's an unsurmountable financial burden then you do what you have to. If it's simply boredom or frustration, that's a poor reason indeed. Now if the time to get the degree, it's far more difficult to come back to and few ever do.

[markhazlett9]

In my opinion, the only reason to get a degree is there are quite a few jobs that require a university degree eventually. Even if starting out you don't need one then you may be restricted later on in your career. It would suck to have to take those 2 years over again later down the road if you find out you have to get your degree.

Cheers

[KYA]

A 4 year degree shows a time commitment, that you were able finish a task you started.


Even without reading your post, just at the title, I would have answered yes regardless. There's no reason to not have one.

[Ellie]

This does seem to happen quite a lot, that people go straight from school to University because other people tell them they should (parents, school teachers etc) without having a good idea of what they want from life, and by extension what they might want from a degree. It's not only the piece of paper at the end (as your parents and teachers may ultimately think), but you want to be maximising what you get from your time there by learning some useful skills and maybe some things you wouldn't have chosen yourself, but which inspire you somehow.

In order to do this I do think you need to have slaved the 9-5 for a bit.

Unfortunately by the time you've done this, your funding options will probably have dried up, so it's either go straight from school, or don't go at all (or struggle through with a job paying for everything yourself - not a bad plan in itself but you have to weigh up where you can afford to go, how much time you can dedicate to it...).

If you have completed two years then you are halfway and it seems like a shame to abandon two years. If you really can't stand it and are getting poor grades because of it, maybe you can look into taking the credit and finishing it at another college or something which will shake you out of this downer about it and get you wanting it a bit more (and then getting better grades). It's probably not a great time to enter the job market anyway.

Hmm, that was a bit long. Short answer = yes get the degree.

[William_Wilson]

Everyone seems to have the right idea. The piece of paper called a degree shows an employer you can commit to things and that you are capable of learning and recalling information. I'm only a few courses short of my degree and personally as far as programming goes it was a big waste of time for me. I've learned far more on my own time through google and DIC than I ever have in class. (This includes building an app for my Java prof -in Java- to accomplish a task he deemed likely impossible)

Higher education is an expensive experience, I will be happy to have the degree, but I will not go any further in my schooling unless a job requires it.

Having doubts about College/University is normal, getting bad grades their is also normal, the lower education standards are screwed up beyond all comprehension and do not measure a person's abilities at all. In all honesty I feel it sets the majority of students up for failure and thus why the first year drop out rate is so high.

The real questions I found it comes down to are:
Would you be unhappy in a year from now, knowing you could have finished a degree?
With time and money already invested in this endeavour, would it be better to just stick it out?

Both questions should not be weighted equally for everyone.

[baavgai]

Ellie, on 14 May, 2009 - 06:45 AM, said:

This does seem to happen quite a lot, that people go straight from school to University because other people tell them they should (parents, school teachers etc) without having a good idea of what they want from life, and by extension what they might want from a degree.

Limey bastards.

Understand, the European practice of kids talking a year off before they go to Uni is completely and utterly non existent in the States. Almost every English cousin I know spent time bouncing around the hostels of Europe before going to school. It's nice if you can afford it.

I've actually recommended it to kids here. But the idea, while appealing, is simply alien.

[Ellie]

baavgai, on 14 May, 2009 - 12:37 PM, said:

Limey bastards.

Understand, the European practice of kids talking a year off before they go to Uni is completely and utterly non existent in the States. Almost every English cousin I know spent time bouncing around the hostels of Europe before going to school. It's nice if you can afford it.

I've actually recommended it to kids here. But the idea, while appealing, is simply alien.

Yeah, I had noticed it was more common here, but a year swanning about doesn't seem to solve that problem for a lot of the students here either. I think you have to suffer the 9-5 away from the influence of parents for a sustained period to know what you want from University. Actually most of the students at work don't get a year out for travelling. It's not really that kind of University

[Programmist]

Quote

I've been given no real motivation to try...

Common attitude from a typical, privileged young American. I recognize it because I had it when I was young. Why should I try? No one has given me a reason to care? Guess what...no one will. Regardless of what you experienced growing up, life won't be handed to you on a silver platter. That "stress" you felt from college is nothing compared some of the stressors that real life presents. If you're buckling under the stress of college then you are not prepared for real life, I assure you. For that reason alone, you need to continue. You need to be able to handle a little bit of stress or you will not last 5 minutes in a real job. Also, you need to get over the attitude that someone else is responsible for motivating you. Right now there are transfer students from much less privileged countries working their a$$es off and not complaining because they are self-motivated. They want a better life because they did not grow up in the richest nation in the world. If you finish your degree, those will be your competitors. If you don't, they will be your bosses. As others have stated here, success does not hinge on a degree itself, but rather the aptitude, perseverence, and self motivation that are utiilzed and developed in the process of attainng it. Also remember that, in times of economic stress (dot-com bubble, real estate bubble) when job candidates are plentiful, resumes without a degree often get put in the round file. Fair? No. True? Yes.

Food for thought.

This post has been edited by Programmist: 14 May 2009 - 08:06 AM

[BlakeJustBlake]

Alright, well, that was really apprehensive. I don't think really understand what I mean by saying I've been given no real motivation to try. I don't need someone to sit down and hold my hand and motivate me, I mean I need to have an actual reason to do the work they've given me. It's not teaching me anything, everything I've learned in College so far, I've taught myself. The way I've seen it is the work they give me is just taking away from me actually learning. And that's just not motivating, do you see what I mean or am I still just a spoiled kid expecting everything to be handed to me on a silver platter?

Here's just how I'm thinking. I can only really compare myself to people of my own age as far as relating myself to other people in the work force, because we're going to be the ones that are most alike. But who do you think will get the job in a couple years? The person who has been getting real world experience in their job for two years or the one that's been going to college and only has a degree to show for what they know.

[baavgai]

If you want to always go about and ask "what's my motivation," take up method acting.

Your motivation is to get the bloody degree! There will times in your job, more times than you'd like, when you'll ask "why the hell are we doing crap like this." The answer is simple, your boss told you and they pay the bills. Even if you love your job there will be times when the current project sucks and you'd consider cutting off a limb to get away from it. That's just life. If you can't deal with doing useless work in school, don't expect it to be easier in the real world.

BlakeJustBlake, on 14 May, 2009 - 10:33 AM, said:

But who do you think will get the job in a couple years? The person who has been getting real world experience in their job for two years or the one that's been going to college and only has a degree to show for what they know.

Good question. If it were a college grad with zero experience, I might take the guy who'd been knocking around a couple years. However, if two applicants had roughly the same experience, the one with the degree would already be ahead. If I asked the applicant without a degree about their education and they essentially said "it bored me" I'd consider ending the interview right there.

[BlakeJustBlake]

Yes, but I'm calling into question the necessity to have a degree. If getting a degree is not necessary to me, then I have no motivation to get one.

[kidicarus]

To be a professional programmer it's pretty clear that it is not as necessary to get a degree as it is to be say a professional mathematician or a professional biologist. This is proven by the empirical evidence that many programmers and software gurus do not have degrees, and by the fact that many start up companies that went on to make millions were started by people who had little or no schooling.

If you had, say, two years at college, that's the equivalent of an associates at a vocational school so in a certain sense you have a degree.

I actually try really hard at school and do not get good grades, but only average to above average. This indicates that maybe college programming is not for me. However, it is possible to still get jobs without having a master's in programming and I am proof of this.

Many companies don't care how good you are at solving sudoku puzzles with Java and making tic-tac-toe games, or a Newtonian body simulator, or even your knowledge of discrete math, and are more interested in your portfolio in Visual C# or what have you. And yet, this is what my college deems important - teaching the language to boneheaded problems that have been solved a million times already. I've also learned far more useful techniques on my own from studying programming and "practical mathematics" books.

Also you can work as an independent programmer or freelance programmer. I'm actually working on a couple of pet projects that have been useful to me and I think may be useful to other people, so I am going to start a website and try and market them. Those are skills you really don't pick up in college anyway.