Are your teachers bullies?

Code Nazis

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#1 NickDMax  Icon User is offline

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Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:43 AM

I have noted a number of students saying things like, "Our teacher does not want us using anything that was not taught in class".

While I can maybe excuse a public school teacher having to deal with political pressure to keep the lessons, "standardized" I just can not see a college professor denying work because it was "above and beyond" the current level.

When I was in school I went WELL above and beyond in all of my classes, and it did create a little trouble for the greader (a student who had already taken the class) -- this only seemed to amuse my teachers. So on occasion I would get an email from a grader saying, "WTF dude" -- but there really was no problem.

So my question is: Do you really have Code Nazis for professors -- or are students just afraid to step outside of the box a little? Is learning more than required a bad thing in school now?

Perhaps I was just lucky in school to always have teachers who cared more about me learning than about me fitting into a mold.

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#2 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:45 AM

I've said this before, but it's such a good story. I lost points for making my sort algorithm instead of using collections.sort() in java :(
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#3 Nykc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 09:24 AM

I posted a thread about inspiring teachers, and hardly anyone responded. It is funny, people are quick to bitch about how bad their teachers are and they hate students etc...

No one ever praises the positives. Most teachers want you to learn, there are way too many politics at work to allow for this most of the time. Some day in life you guys will learn that the world doesn't revolve around you.

When you go to college - most of you (unless you are spoiled brats whose mommies and daddies are giving you a free ride)are paying to learn.

There have been strict attendance policies put in place at my school because students never wanted to show up and learn. I have mixed feelings about this policy and feel the rules were pretty harsh, but we probably wouldn't have been put in that predicament in the first place if the brats would attend class, quit bitching about the assignments and try and learn something instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

Just my $0.02
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#4 bodom658  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:39 AM

IMO, from what I have seen, the less code you write in CS the better.

Like, I know a lot of CS people that would use a language's garbage collection or memory management system or linked lists or whatever before making their own.

Personally, I like being able to understand how everything works. So, I am more likely to use a language like C or C++ where I need to do my own memory management as it shows me how to make sure memory is freed, plus I am much more able to clear memory when I want, I don't need to wait for the garbage collector to take care of it at the end of a subroutine.
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#5 Ed_Bighead  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 12:09 PM

I think it's important to understand how to do things, but once you understand the fundamentals of something, I'd suggest using things that already exist to accomplish a task and to try to avoid re-inventing the wheel.

I also agree with Nykc that good teachers are often under appreciated.
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#6 BlakeJustBlake  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 12:26 PM

View PostNykc, on 21 May, 2009 - 08:24 AM, said:

I posted a thread about inspiring teachers, and hardly anyone responded. It is funny, people are quick to bitch about how bad their teachers are and they hate students etc...


It's probably because people are more likely to have bad teachers than inspiring teachers. I mean if your school has a large inspiring to bad teacher ratio then let us know what magical place you go to.



In my experience, I've never had a teacher that forced me to solve a problem a certain way, and whenever I go above and beyond what they asked I usually get comments from the grader like "Good Program! Keep up the good work!"

The only justification for forcing you to code a certain way, that I can see, is that they want to make sure you understand a certain concept. Like if they want you to solve something with recursion, but you can also solve it with iteration, then I understand forcing you to use recursion. Or if the whole exercise is to teach you a certain function of the language, and you go off and do something completely different, then I can understand forcing you to do one thing. But I agree some of the things I see in the code help sections is a little outlandish as far as asking you to use certain things and only certain things, but perhaps the people asking for help really don't understand and might be able to do more than they think.
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#7 Nykc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 02:25 PM

View PostBlakeJustBlake, on 21 May, 2009 - 01:26 PM, said:

View PostNykc, on 21 May, 2009 - 08:24 AM, said:

I posted a thread about inspiring teachers, and hardly anyone responded. It is funny, people are quick to bitch about how bad their teachers are and they hate students etc...


It's probably because people are more likely to have bad teachers than inspiring teachers. I mean if your school has a large inspiring to bad teacher ratio then let us know what magical place you go to.


I think the question should be how are these teachers bad?
Because they make you do work? Because they teach you the way they know how? The Magical place I went to was the University of Toledo - I might of had a total of three professors in my entire 155 credit hour career that were anal about assignments or that I did not care for - this however does not make them a bad teacher, it makes them un-interesting to me. I enjoyed discussions with many of my professors whom even welcomed the challenges.

I think if people are going to cry about professors or teachers they do not like, then maybe they should consider the alternatives or suck it up. A semester really is not that long, and I do not think Professors typically hold personal grudges and have nothing better to do than harass their students.

edit - By the way if you were capable of proving the professor wrong - you typically got extra credit. Most of these professors have doctorates - I doubt they are all idiots.

This post has been edited by Nykc: 21 May 2009 - 02:27 PM

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#8 BigAnt  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:52 PM

LOL.

Never had any problems with teachers about doing stuff in unique ways. Unless the problem specifically states implement a search routine and I called a library function to do this. The assignment specifically said implement it not use the library. Otherwise had no problems.

Though once in calculus we had a test and was asked to find derivative of 2x^2 + 3 and said 4x and lost points because they wanted it done by definition not shortcuts, LOL.. But the assignment never said that :(
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#9 NickDMax  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 21 May 2009 - 09:04 PM

Quote

I've said this before, but it's such a good story. I lost points for making my sort algorithm instead of using collections.sort() in java sad.gif
Well if you use a bubble sort on a large collection I would take a few points too. :)
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#10 BlakeJustBlake  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 22 May 2009 - 12:56 AM

View PostNykc, on 21 May, 2009 - 01:25 PM, said:

View PostBlakeJustBlake, on 21 May, 2009 - 01:26 PM, said:

View PostNykc, on 21 May, 2009 - 08:24 AM, said:

I posted a thread about inspiring teachers, and hardly anyone responded. It is funny, people are quick to bitch about how bad their teachers are and they hate students etc...


It's probably because people are more likely to have bad teachers than inspiring teachers. I mean if your school has a large inspiring to bad teacher ratio then let us know what magical place you go to.


I think the question should be how are these teachers bad?
Because they make you do work? Because they teach you the way they know how? The Magical place I went to was the University of Toledo - I might of had a total of three professors in my entire 155 credit hour career that were anal about assignments or that I did not care for - this however does not make them a bad teacher, it makes them un-interesting to me. I enjoyed discussions with many of my professors whom even welcomed the challenges.

I think if people are going to cry about professors or teachers they do not like, then maybe they should consider the alternatives or suck it up. A semester really is not that long, and I do not think Professors typically hold personal grudges and have nothing better to do than harass their students.

edit - By the way if you were capable of proving the professor wrong - you typically got extra credit. Most of these professors have doctorates - I doubt they are all idiots.


You're awfully presumptuous. Bad definitely does not mean that they make you do work, the best way to learn in computer science is by doing work, I don't think I'd have it any other way. However, if the way the know to teach is not a very productive method for learning, then I'd definitely say they are bad teachers. But what people are talking about here is teachers who penalize you for knowing something. For instance, I had a teacher take off points on a test once because I wrote a constructor like such:

void class::class(int variable, char something)
:classInt(variable)
,classChar(something)
{}



Instead of:

void class::class(int variable, char something) {
classInt = variable;
classChar = something;
}



Because he hadn't taught us that. Does that mean he was a bad teacher? Not necessarily, maybe a little unfair, but we're not explicitly saying they were bad teachers.
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#11 Nykc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:46 AM

View PostBlakeJustBlake said:

You're awfully presumptuous. Bad definitely does not mean that they make you do work, the best way to learn in computer science is by doing work, I don't think I'd have it any other way. However, if the way the know to teach is not a very productive method for learning, then I'd definitely say they are bad teachers. But what people are talking about here is teachers who penalize you for knowing something. For instance, I had a teacher take off points on a test once because I wrote a constructor like such:

void class::class(int variable, char something)
:classInt(variable)
,classChar(something)
{}



Instead of:

void class::class(int variable, char something) {
classInt = variable;
classChar = something;
}



Because he hadn't taught us that. Does that mean he was a bad teacher? Not necessarily, maybe a little unfair, but we're not explicitly saying they were bad teachers.



Every teacher/professor has their own style of teaching. Every person/student has a certain way in which they learn.
Me I am more of a hands on person that learns from experience, trial and error. Some people can read a book and know everything they need to know.

A Teacher/Professor teaches you what they know, they might not see things like you do. Some teachers and professors like things done a certain way because it makes life a little easier on them in terms of grading/testing/debugging.

In a military operation a plan is put forth and you are expected to execute the orders to the T! Things happen, improvisations need to be made to complete the current objective. The important thing here is the mission was accomplished. Same can be said for CS assignments. The project compiled and works as intended.

To penalize for something like syntax or calling a specific function a certain way is asinine and I have yet to have a professor ever do that to us, unless of course the assignment did not correctly compile or execute.

Like I said in my tenure at College I never once encountered this - but if you don't like the rules laid forth by your professors whom already posses a degree. (Usually a Doctorate or Masters) - then you are left with a few options.

1. Get your tough shit card punched kid that is life. Wait to you get in the real world and something doesn't go your way. Or your client wants to to re-structure an entire feature because it just is not working out anymore.

2. Talk to the Professor if this is a grad student or TA teaching the course, the Professor can over ride the decision.

3. If the problem lies with the professor as a last resort you can talk to the department chair. Yes schools have a chain of command too.

4. If all else fails don't take any more courses from that professor and suck it up in the mean time.

Call it what you want, but the fact of the matter is the Professor has a final say in your grade, you can appeal to the powers that be, but it is their way or the highway.

$0.02 & Life lesson.
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#12 William_Wilson  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:51 AM

My assignments are usually marked by fellow students (Teacher's Assistants), I regularly get responses similar to "I don't know how this works, but it does, 100%". At least so far they don't deduct marks if it goes beyond what they understand.

As for profs/teachers, most are impressed if you show initiative in learning things from outside of class and would never penalize you unless it was explicitly stated in the assignment that we must use knowledge from the class only.

Quote

Get your tough shit card punched kid that is life. Wait to you get in the real world and something doesn't go your way. Or your client wants to to re-structure an entire feature because it just is not working out anymore.

+1
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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 22 May 2009 - 08:59 AM

Granted I went to school (both times) a long time ago, but my professors loved it when I went out on my own and found different/better ways of accomplishing a task, and didn't just stick 100% to what we were told. I think that kind of behavior also leads to better employees (in my opinion anyways) as you're willing to think a different way, and willing to question if one way of doing something is necessarily the best way.

Just my 2 :)
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#14 red_4900  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 22 May 2009 - 10:46 AM

View PostNickDMax, on 21 May, 2009 - 07:43 AM, said:

So my question is: Do you really have Code Nazis for professors -- or are students just afraid to step outside of the box a little? Is learning more than required a bad thing in school now?

I already bitched about this before. I once wrote in my assignment more than what is in the syllabus and I got low marks. Although that did not stop me to learn more from what is taught in the class.

Depend on the lecturers, I think. Mine was good at getting the students to start the first step. He was just not quite as good in the end. But I still thank him for getting me to get this far though.
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#15 BlakeJustBlake  Icon User is offline

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Re: Are your teachers bullies?

Posted 22 May 2009 - 11:41 AM

View PostNykc, on 22 May, 2009 - 07:46 AM, said:

Every teacher/professor has their own style of teaching. Every person/student has a certain way in which they learn.
Me I am more of a hands on person that learns from experience, trial and error. Some people can read a book and know everything they need to know.

A Teacher/Professor teaches you what they know, they might not see things like you do. Some teachers and professors like things done a certain way because it makes life a little easier on them in terms of grading/testing/debugging.

In a military operation a plan is put forth and you are expected to execute the orders to the T! Things happen, improvisations need to be made to complete the current objective. The important thing here is the mission was accomplished. Same can be said for CS assignments. The project compiled and works as intended.

To penalize for something like syntax or calling a specific function a certain way is asinine and I have yet to have a professor ever do that to us, unless of course the assignment did not correctly compile or execute.

Like I said in my tenure at College I never once encountered this - but if you don't like the rules laid forth by your professors whom already posses a degree. (Usually a Doctorate or Masters) - then you are left with a few options.

1. Get your tough shit card punched kid that is life. Wait to you get in the real world and something doesn't go your way. Or your client wants to to re-structure an entire feature because it just is not working out anymore.

2. Talk to the Professor if this is a grad student or TA teaching the course, the Professor can over ride the decision.

3. If the problem lies with the professor as a last resort you can talk to the department chair. Yes schools have a chain of command too.

4. If all else fails don't take any more courses from that professor and suck it up in the mean time.

Call it what you want, but the fact of the matter is the Professor has a final say in your grade, you can appeal to the powers that be, but it is their way or the highway.

$0.02 & Life lesson.



You're completely moving away from what you first started out saying. People are going to post more gripes about professors than bragging about inspiring professors because it takes a truly special professor to actually be inspiring; just because a teacher is good doesn't make him inspiring. Also, I don't know why you're coming in here telling people to man up and deal with their teachers because no one has really come out and called their teachers bad.

Someone noticed that a lot of the people in the code help sections say that their teachers want them to solve problems in very specific ways, so he asked if other people have had this happen to them because they themselves have not experienced it. So just because some people reply to a question someone asks, that means they're complaining and you need to swoop in and tell them to deal with it? They probably are dealing with it quite gracefully, but someone asked a question, and if someone has experience dealing with the answer to that question, I wouldn't be surprised if they answered it.
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