[searockruz]

dude you totally puzzled me

hope so you may find your answer here

http://www.leaderu.c...idjesusdie.html

there's nothing wrong in hating Christan's but don't bring God in middle
he has created the universe and he is not a stupid to make wrong decisions

@Servatis

have you read the old testament

how god helped his people specifically during Moses

This post has been edited by searockruz: 26 May 2009 - 09:27 AM

[mostyfriedman]

i dont hate god, i am a strong believer in god..but i just dont find the christian philosophy to be rational that's all

[searockruz]

@mostyfriedman

did you read the article ?

[NeoTifa]

There is a guy who has big stuffed animals and a cowboy hat that stands outside and holds a cross that is 2x bigger than he is and preaches to people outside of the BMV where I live. He has a row of styrophome tombstones that say "Allah", "Bhudda", "Satan", "Other religions" etc. It made me sick to my stomach seeing this. Seriously? Come on. And not to mention the crazy wacko that preaches in front of Oelman Hall in Wright State. They have cops and a gate to protect him from sane people. I heard he makes his wife practically dress like a Muslim woman and she's not allowed to speak unless he speaks to her. Rediculous imho.


((And Wolf, you think God's a girl too?! Does she play Skeeball? jk))

This post has been edited by NeoTifa: 26 May 2009 - 09:42 AM

[OliveOyl3471]

Gorian, on 25 May, 2009 - 10:16 PM, said:

Notice, we are not saved by the substitution, but rather because through the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus conquered sin and death for us. His blood bought our redemption because, being perfect and holy, he suffered a consequence not his own. This broke the power of sin over us, if we accept his sacrifice, and repent

Nowhere is it written "wear a symbol of my death, and you will be saved" or "idolize the piece of wood I died on and have redemption". No. Now don't get me wrong, I wear a cross, but to passively proclaim, not because I believe that it gives me salvation. A simple way to view Christian salvation:

• Believe God is Alive and Real
  
• Believe that Jesus was real //Jesus IS real
  
• Believe that Jesus is God
  
• Believe that Jesus died on the cross to purchase you by his blood
  
• Accept the gift of salvation
  
• Repent
  
• Good works stemming from faith (different than believing in salvation through works)

Most Christians do not bother to learn what they believe. Too many practice extreme tolerance and are of the belief that God exists in a building one a week, and that going there once a week and giving a couple dollars will get them to heaven. and that is unbiblical.

But, the bible says that we are to go out and make disciples of all men. In order to do that we have to know our beliefs in and out.

To know what we believe, we have to question it, to challenge everything we think is true, for when we do, eventually all that is not truth will fall away.

"For we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers of darkness"

To remain steadfast, we must have a firm grounding in what we know to be true.

Get up and look outside. Everything in existence and creation screams intelligent design. All you have to do is look without a bias.

This is my belief as well. I agree with everything you said here (with one exception where I have commented it), and since I could not say it better myself I will just quote you.


I'll add this, though. The reason Jesus died for us (instead of us dying for our own sins) is because he was without sin himself, and that he has the power to raise from the dead. We cannot do that without His help. We are not without sin. We could only die for our own sins, not anyone else's. We cannot save ourselves, let alone anyone else. The wages (rightful earnings) for sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus. It required a perfect sacrifice, which we are not.

It is a difficult subject to discuss here since there are so many who do not believe. But it's not my job to convince you, only to let you know who and what God is to me.
♥

This post has been edited by OliveOyl3471: 26 May 2009 - 09:49 AM

[searockruz]

@NeoTifa

god didn't made any of this stupid rules.
its people who make it

A true religion is one which gives total freedom

[mostyfriedman]

OliveOyl3471, on 26 May, 2009 - 08:44 AM, said:

Gorian, on 25 May, 2009 - 10:16 PM, said:

Notice, we are not saved by the substitution, but rather because through the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus conquered sin and death for us. His blood bought our redemption because, being perfect and holy, he suffered a consequence not his own. This broke the power of sin over us, if we accept his sacrifice, and repent

Nowhere is it written "wear a symbol of my death, and you will be saved" or "idolize the piece of wood I died on and have redemption". No. Now don't get me wrong, I wear a cross, but to passively proclaim, not because I believe that it gives me salvation. A simple way to view Christian salvation:

• Believe God is Alive and Real
  
• Believe that Jesus was real //Jesus IS real
  
• Believe that Jesus is God
  
• Believe that Jesus died on the cross to purchase you by his blood
  
• Accept the gift of salvation
  
• Repent
  
• Good works stemming from faith (different than believing in salvation through works)

Most Christians do not bother to learn what they believe. Too many practice extreme tolerance and are of the belief that God exists in a building one a week, and that going there once a week and giving a couple dollars will get them to heaven. and that is unbiblical.

But, the bible says that we are to go out and make disciples of all men. In order to do that we have to know our beliefs in and out.

To know what we believe, we have to question it, to challenge everything we think is true, for when we do, eventually all that is not truth will fall away.

"For we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers of darkness"

To remain steadfast, we must have a firm grounding in what we know to be true.

Get up and look outside. Everything in existence and creation screams intelligent design. All you have to do is look without a bias.

This is my belief as well. I agree with everything you said here (with one exception where I have commented it), and since I could not say it better myself I will just quote you.


I'll add this, though. The reason Jesus died for us (instead of us dying for our own sins) is because he was without sin himself, and that he has the power to raise from the dead. We cannot do that without His help. We are not without sin. We could only die for our own sins, not anyone else's. We cannot save ourselves, let alone anyone else. The wages (rightful earnings) for sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus. It required a perfect sacrifice, which we are not.

It is a difficult subject to discuss here since there are so many who do not believe. But it's not my job to convince you, only to let you know who and what God is to me.
♥

then why was jesus baptized then in the jordan river or something if he was born without sin???

[baavgai]

KYA, on 25 May, 2009 - 08:12 PM, said:

Except good works are worthless by themselves.

Huh? I think I'm missing the context of this.

Good works have intrinsic value. If a Christian is doing them strictly to earn cred in Heaven, it may not count on the St.Peter score card, but it's still useful to the community. Then again, most good done has an underlying selfish motivation. As long at the end product is positive, it's hard to complain.

[searockruz]

Quote

then why was jesus baptized then in the jordan river or something if he was born without sin???

once you say Jesus was innocent and the very next moment you doubt about his innocence.

its a ritual.
now don't ask why he took birth.He could have come down flying
he came on earth as a human, and even was tempted by the satan

[mostyfriedman]

searockruz, on 26 May, 2009 - 08:33 AM, said:

@mostyfriedman

did you read the article ?

no, and am not gonna read it..i've already talked to a lot of christians and done a lot of reading and i have made up my mind about the concept of god and salvation in christianity.

searockruz, on 26 May, 2009 - 09:06 AM, said:

Quote

then why was jesus baptized then in the jordan river or something if he was born without sin???

once you say Jesus was innocent and the very next moment you doubt about his innocence.

its a ritual.
now don't ask why he took birth.He could have come down flying
he came on earth as a human, and even was tempted by the satan

where did i say that jesus was innocent??? i didnt say anything about the innocence of jesus

[Gorian]

@OliveOyl lol. I of course agree with the commented...

mostyfriedman, on 26 May, 2009 - 04:43 AM, said:

Quote

god says you human will never understand my plans

its just like a child saying to her mom can i play with fire, and then starts crying after she stops him from playing, do you think the child is right if he says my mom is really bad

that is a very bad example, if god tells me dont do drugs for example then this example will hold, coz god knows that drugs are bad for me even if i'm not convinced. so it makes sense that god forbids drugs for humans..what doesnt make sense is killing someone else to pay for the sins of humans..i mean god is supposed to be all merciful, omnipresent and omnipotent etc etc..if your god has to kill someone to be able to forgive then he is not a true god and he is a deficient god because he is not able to forgive unless someone else is crucified

Jesus' Sacrifice was enough because he was pure, perfect, and holy. Note that it was not substitution as much as breaking the power sin had over us. As for "Why does God not help us?"

God is Alive, and he is moving. But there are consequences to your sin. God, being perfect, cannot abide by sin. An analogy:

Imagine a friend in the middle of a raging fire so hot that it is impossible to make it to the friend without dying. Rather, first you would extinguish the fire, and then save them. In the same way, God cannot abide our sin. Baptism was symbolic, to show others that Jesus was God, and to set precedence for what we should do.

Works. It is written that we do good works out of faith and love. But Good works mean nothing to God in themselves. In the Gospels, Jesus has a parable in which some priests and good people went to heaven. They were asked why they should be allowed in. They answered they should be allowed into Heaven because they did all kinds of good things in his [Jesus] name. To this Jesus replied that he never knew them and that they were not welcome. The point is the Christianity is about a true, authentic, relationship with the Living God. If you are truly living in Him, and living in his love and grace, then by that will your good works flow. Note that we are not perfect, but all are broken. We cannot by our own power change who we are, and what we are.

Note that in this day and age, satan is given dominion over earth. Not dierectly, but he has power here to tempt you and lead you astray. As for God. Those of you with children especially: Will you allow your child to ride a bike? Knowing that he will inevitably fall now and again and hurt him/herself? Most likely, it is part of learning to ride a bike. Most likely you are not going to walk around behind them on the bike every moment of every day or they will not grow and learn to ride on their own. In the same way,God allows us to grow in our faith by sending us trials. While he does not always send bad things our way, sometimes he allows them so as to help us realize that we need to subside in him. Read the book of Job. God does not send any ill-fortune his way, but he allows it to happen, so that we will know that we need to stand with His strength.

[mostyfriedman]

i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, coz am still not convinced about the whole salvation thing..not to mention the concept of trinity and god being 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 or whatever..and that jesus is god or the son of god or whatever..

[computerfox]

it's not that you're not convinced, it's that you don't understand, according to the way you said it. and it's not a question of agreeing or not because those are the facts about Christianity, it's a question if you believe it or not and if not why. because you don't understand it?

This post has been edited by computerfox: 26 May 2009 - 12:36 PM

[jase81]

"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today
Is christians who acknowledge jesus with their lips
Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle.
That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
- From the song "What If I Stumble" by DC Talk

"If i find in myself desires nothing in this world can satisfy,
I can only conclude that I was not made for here."
- From the song "C.S. Lewis Song" by Brooke Fraser
(Quoting C.S. Lewis from his book "Mere Christianity")

RE: The Trinity.
I could never explain how it works, I don't know if anyone can, but check this out (it's all I've got):

God = Jesus = Holy Spirit
Jesus = God or Holy Spirit in human form

Water = Ice = Steam
Ice = Water or Steam in solid form

All are the same they just exist in different states and perform different roles. This might also help with questions about the crucifixion of Jesus. When it came to God the Father crushing His son Jesus on the cross, He was in fact crushing part of the Trinity. In other words He was paying the price for our sins Himself out of His love for us.

[computerfox]

jase you got it up 1. don't claim to be something that you are not, but if you're gonna ridicule something at least know and understand the facts. it's one thing not to believe something, but it's another not to understand it.

This post has been edited by computerfox: 26 May 2009 - 01:39 PM