[Irish18]

@Baavgai - I've two questions:

1) I've started on C# as my first programming language and was wondering if it's normal to get frustrated at slow progress? I've only been programming for about a month, but i've usually been on my comp every day for a good few hours and i'm still in the very basics of the fundamenals, I only just got on to 'Object-oriented programming'.

2) If i'm looking to do Software Development, which were I live (Scotland) allows you to study Computer Science at University, should I maybe think about branching into other languages once I get the grasp of C#, if so what languages?

Thanks.

[AGRAC393]

Wow, c# as your first programming language! Maybe others will disagree with me, but isn't that a pretty 'high-up' language? You should try c++ to start out with if your frustrated! C++ is an easier language for beginners!

[stayscrisp]

AGRAC393, on 16 Jun, 2009 - 07:50 AM, said:

Wow, c# as your first programming language! Maybe others will disagree with me, but isn't that a pretty 'high-up' language? You should try c++ to start out with if your frustrated! C++ is an easier language for beginners!

It's actually the complete opposite, C++ is a much more low level language than C# and much harder to learn than C#. They have similar syntax though so learning c++ then C# would be easier.

[NickDMax]

Quote

C++ is an easier language for beginners!

Well I would actually disagree to a point. C++ is actually a pretty darn complex language.

C# on the other hand is pretty easy to get up and running in... It is also easier to branch into more interesting things like GUI environments. I would say that like Java, C# is as good a place as any to start programming. It also has a better chance of holding someone's attention since it is not as hard to get past the console programming stage.


...then again... what do I know I learned to program in BASIC on a computer that plugged into my TV.

[SixOfEleven]

I agree with nickdmax, +1. C# I find is a little easier on the eyes than C++. While C# has many of the same features of C++, a lot of the crypticness of C++ has been removed and given it a more Java like syntax which some will argue is easier to read. The syntax of all three are, however, based upon their predecessor, plain old C. Knowing any one of the four(C, C++, C# or Java) will make learning the others easier. The path I followed was C, C++, C# and now in my spare time trying to wade through the Java libraries.

(I also began in BASIC plugged into my TV.)

[Core]

On a side note, C# is based on the .NET Framework, which actually makes the development process more productive since it includes many built-in libraries you would spend hours creating them in C++.

Speaking about slow progress, it is absolutely fine. In your case it is important to understand the fundamentals. If it requires more time for you, that's fine. People are different and so is their learning process. Someone gets into programming easier, someone will encounter more obstacles. There is no standard learning timeline (well unless you are stuck on something for a few years).

(By the way, I started with VB6 - at that time BASIC was outdated )

[Ace26]

Irish18, on 16 Jun, 2009 - 07:29 AM, said:

@Baavgai - I've two questions:

1) I've started on C# as my first programming language and was wondering if it's normal to get frustrated at slow progress? I've only been programming for about a month, but i've usually been on my comp every day for a good few hours and i'm still in the very basics of the fundamenals, I only just got on to 'Object-oriented programming'

C# is an easy language to learn an that can't be over emphasized. C++ on the other hand (which i'll like to call an intermediate-level language cos of its blend of C-style programming and OOP) isn't one of the easiest.

As for your speed, not everyone to the finish line at the same time. Remember its not how far but how well that matters the most. Besides no employer is interested in "how long it took you to learn the language" but "what you can do with what you've learnt". So don't get frustrated anymore cause you will definitely get there if you continue working as hard as you are doing.

[bodom658]

yes, C# is a good place to start. It isn't very cross platform compatible (yet) but none the less will help you get the basics down and help you learn more languages in the long run

[firebolt]

This could do good in the Q&A's with the Pros. I think Baavgai will notice it better there.

[baavgai]

C# is an excellent starting language. I'd recommend it for all the reasons I'd recommend Java. In addition to that, Visual Studio is probably the best IDE available, for anything. I work professionally in C#. It's always a joy to come back to after playing with other toys.

Frustrated? Sure, everyone gets frustrated. You'll spend hours or days working on something you feel should be trivial but just isn't working. It the nature of programming. You blazed away at stuff you've done a thousand times before, then hit a "how the hell do I do that" roadblock and come to a screeching halt.

It doesn't just happen when you're starting; it always happens. I've posted before, a core attribute of any programmer is a high tolerance for frustration. If you just throw up your hands and walk away when it's difficult, you wont get anywhere. The good news is, once you solve such problems you'll always have that solution. No time is ever wasted programming, you'll always learn something, even if it was wasn't what you intended.

Life after C#? Well, there's a whole lot to the .NET Framework. If you're going to put C# on a resume, people will often assume you know all of it or only be focused on one aspect of it and assume that is all of it.

In addition to the basic C# the language, you'll want to know WinForms inside and out. All the controls, the event model, etc. Be confident that you can throw together a basic functioning form fast enough to impress the crowd.

You'll also want to know ASP.NET, which is drastically different than writing apps in WinForms even though it uses the same language. You'll want to know HTML, XML, XSLT (optional, but I like it), CSS, and Javascript. Web Services? They're simple enough, but worth just knowing. Make sure you know how to deploy web apps. It's mostly push button now, but it won't hurt to play around with IIS as well.

If you're doing anything large, there's a database behind it. Learn SQL and how C# interacts with it. SQL Server is defacto for MS stuff, so a little T-SQL wouldn't hurt, either. You can even use some of it in those little embedded MDFs now. The data aware widgets in .NET are almost a discipline unto themselves. Know DataSets in your sleep and how to write a client application with and without data binding.

There's probably more I'm forgetting, but that's just C#. Sounds like a lot? It is. The worst part is, depending on your work environment, people will often assume you know all of it. Beat them to the punch. Learning most tech is like learning chess. You can get the basics is a very short time; mastery will take a little longer.

If you were to leave the land of Microsoft, look to Java. It's very similar to C#, will also have all the tertiary tech demands I've already mentioned. It may all sound like new and different stuff, but it isn't. After you've amassed enough experience, you'll often find yourself thinking, "well, this is just like this, only..."

Hope I didn't scare you. Good luck.

firebolt, on 19 Jun, 2009 - 05:11 AM, said:

This could do good in the Q&A's with the Pros. I think Baavgai will notice it better there.

Ha! Found it. ( Um, thanks to you. It's been a rough week. )

[Irish18]

firebolt, on 19 Jun, 2009 - 03:11 AM, said:

This could do good in the Q&A's with the Pros. I think Baavgai will notice it better there.

It just goes to show quite how hopeless I am; I was in the Q&A's with the Pros section, then clicked New Topic instead of Reply to Topic.

It took me all of a day to realise this folly.

[firebolt]

Its fine. At least Baavgai found it.