[syfran]

Conspiracy!!!!! other countries don't actually exist, its all just made up by the government O.o

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Hrm... well 'morals' like ethics and various other nonsense topics are indeed simply ideas that people came up with to control others and have no objective logical basis

morals are an ideological concept that was created to represent an actual thing in society. Depending on your prospective you may see them as being used to manipulate people, but that was not the intended purpose.

If you want to call them 'ideas I like to live by' then go ahead, they're still what the concept of 'morals' represents.

This post has been edited by syfran: 21 September 2009 - 01:52 PM

[KYA]

Kids, this is why you don't smoke weed.

[Jaakuuta]

syfran, on 21 Sep, 2009 - 12:42 PM, said:

Jaakuuta, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 10:34 AM, said:

Well first of all, I don't believe in the concept of "other countries" so that's kind of a moot point. But if that were the case then one could still obtain them by any means possible without resorting to violence.

(btw, personally, how can you be a linux supporter but still prefer xbox?)

What is the problem with countries?

I never stated why I support linux so you're just making assumptions.
Plus my brother bought an xbox and it happens to have bad ass games.

The problem with countries imho is that they tend to make people too nationalistic. It's like the way people get with sports teams and the like. I've never understood why somebody is willing to fight with others just because they're representing a team that just happens to be from an area that they just happen to live in. I figure if we were all one unified nation then there would be no nationalistic feelings that one nation is better than another because there would be only one nation. Of course there are still likely to be racists out there, you can't really change that unfortunately...

The reason I'm against the XBOX is for a couple of reasons. 1 It's by M$ and I don't care much for them as they tend to monopolize the industry. 2 M$ should have just stayed out of the console arena when it was still Nintendo v. Sega v. Sony. Poor Sega, they left way too soon. 3 I work for a company that repairs video game consoles and I happen to know for a fact that XBOX360s tend to fail more than the other consoles do. PS3 is a close second, but XBOX still takes the cake.

Another reason I don't care too much for M$ is because their products tend to have issues. I always seem to have issues just trying to use them doing relatively normal things. The IE browser causes issues that other browsers don't and has been the constant cause of anguish for me the last week or so because every time I try to make an update to a website, every other browser can read it just fine but IE always has issues. I've gotten the blue screen of death more times than I can count with windows and yet doing the same things on Linux it works just fine, much better in fact. So it's not just a political-economical thing, it just seems like M$ products are horrible in general. (It's not just me either, I have several friends who experience the same issues and have since gone to either Linux or Mac)

This post has been edited by Jaakuuta: 22 September 2009 - 01:50 AM

[syfran]

People have a natural instinct to protect themselves. early on we realise that we can protect each other in larger groups. This will then turn into a symbiotic relationship where you protect the group and the group protects you. The harder you fight for the group the stronger the group will be as a whole.

This isn't a pretty world, this type of mentality isn't going to go away soon.

Edit: damn, noticed the typo after I was quoted

This post has been edited by syfran: 22 September 2009 - 04:19 AM

[Jaakuuta]

syfran, on 22 Sep, 2009 - 01:02 AM, said:

People have a natural instinct to protect themselves. early on we realise that we can protect each other in larger groups. This will then turn into a symbiotic relationship where you are protected by the group and the group protects you. The harder you fight for the group the stronger the group will be as a whole.

This isn't a pretty world, this type of mentality isn't going to go away soon.

Indeed, 'tis an unfortunate state of affairs.
I lament our dire fate.

[modi123_1]

Jaakuuta, on 22 Sep, 2009 - 02:31 AM, said:

syfran, on 21 Sep, 2009 - 12:42 PM, said:

Jaakuuta, on 20 Sep, 2009 - 10:34 AM, said:

Well first of all, I don't believe in the concept of "other countries" so that's kind of a moot point. But if that were the case then one could still obtain them by any means possible without resorting to violence.

(btw, personally, how can you be a linux supporter but still prefer xbox?)

What is the problem with countries?

I never stated why I support linux so you're just making assumptions.
Plus my brother bought an xbox and it happens to have bad ass games.

The problem with countries imho is that they tend to make people too nationalistic. It's like the way people get with sports teams and the like. I've never understood why somebody is willing to fight with others just because they're representing a team that just happens to be from an area that they just happen to live in. I figure if we were all one unified nation then there would be no nationalistic feelings that one nation is better than another because there would be only one nation. Of course there are still likely to be racists out there, you can't really change that unfortunately...

The reason I'm against the XBOX is for a couple of reasons. 1 It's by M$ and I don't care much for them as they tend to monopolize the industry. 2 M$ should have just stayed out of the console arena when it was still Nintendo v. Sega v. Sony. Poor Sega, they left way too soon. 3 I work for a company that repairs video game consoles and I happen to know for a fact that XBOX360s tend to fail more than the other consoles do. PS3 is a close second, but XBOX still takes the cake.

Another reason I don't care too much for M$ is because their products tend to have issues. I always seem to have issues just trying to use them doing relatively normal things. The IE browser causes issues that other browsers don't and has been the constant cause of anguish for me the last week or so because every time I try to make an update to a website, every other browser can read it just fine but IE always has issues. I've gotten the blue screen of death more times than I can count with windows and yet doing the same things on Linux it works just fine, much better in fact. So it's not just a political-economical thing, it just seems like M$ products are horrible in general. (It's not just me either, I have several friends who experience the same issues and have since gone to either Linux or Mac)

<<The problem with countries imho is that they tend to make people too nationalistic.>>
What's wrong with taking pride in your nation, state, school, team, tribe, or group?

<<I figure if we were all one unified nation then there would be no nationalistic feelings that one nation is better than another because there would be only one nation.>>
Yeah that might solve the fictitious evil national pride but does nothing for the miriad of other group pride. Be it your favorite baseball team, state versus state, regions versus region, religion, high school, or street block. You blithely ignore the human nature to herd and gather. What you ask would to be destroy identity and as such individuality.


<<1 It's by M$ and I don't care much for them as they tend to monopolize the industry.>>
What industry are they monopolizing this time?

<<2 M$ should have just stayed out of the console arena when it was still Nintendo v. Sega v. Sony. Poor Sega, they left way too soon.>>
You hate Microsoft because... Sega cut their console line? Wow. You do know Sega's still around right? I guess it's fair to say I hate Sega, Sony, and Nintendo because they killed off the Atari Jaguar. *sniff* Atari you left way too soon.

<<3 I work for a company that repairs video game consoles and I happen to know for a fact that XBOX360s tend to fail more than the other consoles do>>
Well when you are comparing stats clearly there is going to be a lowest and as such is not evidence on why they are the devil.

<<I've gotten the blue screen of death more times than I can count with windows>>
To quote a lolcat - 'You are doing it wrong'.

<<like M$ products are horrible in general. >>
Exactly what is your reasoning? The provide an OS and software universally used across all the spectrum. The software is robust enough to be chucked on an infinite number of hard ware configurations with only minimal issues? You worry about monopolies but support things like an Apple product where they tightly control the specs of the hardware thus controlling the types of errors that come up with a windows OS?

It would be wonderful if Linux ever worked a quarter of the time windows did. I can barely get people to install it let alone update it to a proper version without having to hack through console commands and a slew of other issues. Hardware driver support? Nope.

[ForcedSterilizationsForAll]

@Jaakuuta

All I hear from you is blah blah blah blah I don't care about others, it's their problem if I speak gibberish and they don't understand me blah blah blah.

Also, what does console choice or OS choice have to do with morality? Are you trying to say "I think their products suck, so you should too" or is there some deeper issue?

[Jaakuuta]

ForcedSterilizationsForAll, on 22 Sep, 2009 - 10:09 AM, said:

@Jaakuuta

All I hear from you is blah blah blah blah I don't care about others, it's their problem if I speak gibberish and they don't understand me blah blah blah.

Also, what does console choice or OS choice have to do with morality? Are you trying to say "I think their products suck, so you should too" or is there some deeper issue?

Hrm... that's funny because all I hear from others is blah blah blah I don't care what you say, you're wrong nevertheless, no matter what points you make.
I don't think what I'm saying is "gibberish" at all and I don't see where you get that idea from.
I don't see why you say I don't care about others when doing things for the good of mankind is at the core of my discussions.
Even if it may not see it that way, that's how I view them.

As for OS choice and the like, that was just something I was curious about, I know it's off topic and it was only meant to be a simple question requesting a simple response, not a drawn-out argument.
I'm not saying I think their products suck, I'm just saying they don't seem to work very well so I don't get why people seem to like them so much in favor of other alternatives like Linux and the like.

[ForcedSterilizationsForAll]

If everyone is telling you that you're wrong, then maybe you are wrong. I get the idea that you're speaking gibberish because to me it sounds like gibberish. Your argument would be that it's my fault for not interpreting your words correctly, but I say it's your fault for not using the words the way society views as being correct and what the general consensus of the meaning of those words are. In other words, you need to find a better way to get your message across.

The problem is that you're looking at a tiny part of the picture. Your "solution" is based on your misconceptions of the world and what you think is best for everyone. Have you seriously thought about how your solution would impact others?

You talk about taking pride in your individuality and heritage like it's a bad thing. You think everyone should fit into a tiny mold and say screw it to the things that make them who they are. You think it is this that is the cause of all the violence in the world, instead of looking at human/animal nature being the cause.

Do two competing packs of dogs get along and lick each other when they cross paths or do they fight for the territory?

You're over simplifying things and not looking at the REAL root problem.

My solution to all the world's problems are to kill everyone except one person. As soon as the total world population of humans equals one, all the worlds problems will be solved. As soon as there is more than one person there is conflict.

[Amadeus]

I call being the one!!!!

[OliveOyl3471]

I would think he'd spare himself. Sorry. You die with me. ♥

Jaakuuta, on 23 Sep, 2009 - 01:24 AM, said:

Hrm... that's funny because all I hear from others is blah blah blah I don't care what you say, you're wrong nevertheless, no matter what points you make.

Pretty much.

Although I must admit I did not bother to read most of it.

[ForcedSterilizationsForAll]

Nope, I wouldn't spare myself. No way would I want to have to deal with the mess or the smell.

[Jaakuuta]

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If everyone is telling you that you're wrong, then maybe you are wrong.

Maybe I'm just the only one that's right

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I get the idea that you're speaking gibberish because to me it sounds like gibberish. Your argument would be that it's my fault for not interpreting your words correctly

What words, praytell, would those be?

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but I say it's your fault for not using the words the way society views as being correct and what the general consensus of the meaning of those words are. In other words, you need to find a better way to get your message across.

words are open to interpretation, but once again, what words?

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The problem is that you're looking at a tiny part of the picture. Your "solution" is based on your misconceptions of the world and what you think is best for everyone. Have you seriously thought about how your solution would impact others?

Well, like I've already said several times, my ideas are simply ideals, and I don't expect them to ever be actually implemented. It's not like we're a world government here, this is all merely speculation which you all obviously take way too seriously.

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You talk about taking pride in your individuality and heritage like it's a bad thing.

Well there's a difference between being proud of your individuality and heritage and being proud to the point where you think that you're better than everybody else and killing them for not being like you. When your country wins in a football game, that's a time to have national pride. When you get into a riot because your team lost, then it's gone too far.

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You think everyone should fit into a tiny mold and say screw it to the things that make them who they are. You think it is this that is the cause of all the violence in the world, instead of looking at human/animal nature being the cause.

I realize human/animal nature is the cause of a lot of violence, I think I've even stated that before. Once again you are making assumptions about how I think.

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Do two competing packs of dogs get along and lick each other when they cross paths or do they fight for the territory?

Are you a dog then?

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You're over simplifying things and not looking at the REAL root problem.

I simplify things, that's the point of keeping things simple. Complexity just causes more problems than need be. I know what the real roots of the problem are but those things aren't as interesting to think about.

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My solution to all the world's problems are to kill everyone except one person. As soon as the total world population of humans equals one, all the worlds problems will be solved. As soon as there is more than one person there is conflict.

Talk about horrible solutions... what would that accomplish? Unless you can evolve into an asexually reproducing organism before you die then humans will have gone extinct.

@oliveoyl how can you expect to have a valid argument if you don't even know what you're arguing about?

A final note to this comment, in case you didn't see it above:
What I'm talking about are ideals, they are merely speculation. You tend to take this too seriously and are certainly no fun.

[modi123_1]

@jaak

Great back pedaling and cop out. *thumbs up*

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When your country wins in a football game

This is the only one I have contention with - the NFL (as much as they have tried) does not have foothold outside of the USA. Baseball would have been a better example.

[ForcedSterilizationsForAll]

I'm interpreting your words as gibberish. You say words are open to interpretation and then turn around and get offended and mad when someone interprets what you say differently than you intended. To me that means you fail at getting your message across as you wanted it to be received.

If you don't think your ideas will ever be implemented and aren't worried about them, then why waste your time with them? Are you just upset because this is the first time you were bitch slapped in an argument?

You can speculate all you want, but don't cry when someone tells you the flaws in your speculation. You just don't want to hear what is wrong with your thought process. Are you going to just shut down, cross your arms and pout because someone called you on why your ideas are bad ideas? Speculation is fun, it's even more fun when you learn something new or hear something that you didn't take into account. You obviously have a problem with this.

When was the last time someone was killed for simply liking a different sports team? If heated words are exchanged that someone else takes as an insult that is a different issue entirely.

Has the following scenario ever happened:
Man walks into bar. Sits down to have a drink and watch the game. Someone else comes to sit with him and says "Boy, I hope sports team A wins." First man says "I like sports team B better." Second man says "You are wrong, sports team A is better, you will now die," and then attacks the first person?

It's more like:
Man walks into bar. Sits down to have a drink and watch the game. Someone else comes to sit with him and says "Cheers mate, Team A is going to total beat team B." First man says "Bullshit, Team A blows ass, Team B is going to slaughter them." Second man says "what the Hell?! Team B is a bunch of fairies and all their fans are fairies!" More heated words are exchanged and a fight ensues.

You also completely discount mob mentality when a group of people are together and full of emotion from either their favorite team winning a game or losing the game. Go to a concert and watch how people act when their favorite song is played. It's the same thing.

You can accept animal/human nature where people are violent, and then call me a dog in so many words when I give an example to support why people are the way they are. Bravo to you for your reading comprehension skills. I tip my hat at you.

You say you simplify things, but that's now how the real world works. Things are complex. By simplifying things you make broad generalizations. Then again, maybe you can't handle more complex things (see, I can simplify things too).

Do you honestly think it's more interesting to keep things simple? Are you really that much of a simpleton? I guess being a byproduct of the MTV generation would make you feel that way, but I prefer things that challenge my intellect a little more. Those things are much more fun and much more fulfilling. Then again, I can handle complex thought.

I never said my solution to all the world's problems was an ideal one. I simply said that as long as more than one person is alive there will be conflict as the people will not be the exact same. They will have different experiences and different ideals, and this will generate conflict. If you want world peace everyone has to die.

My final note to you is that you're just pissed because I ripped your argument to shreds. I thoroughly enjoy people finding fault in my ideas. It gives me a chance to avoid tunnel vision (which you seem to cherish) and challenge me to rethink things. You are the one that seems to be taking things too serious. Then again, if you weren't such a simpleton you'd find enjoyment in being challenged.