Learning Outdated C++ Standards

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#1 diego_pmc  Icon User is offline

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Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:18 AM

I have some questions about when various changes occurred in the C++ language not exactly a 'help thread', but it fits pretty well in this forum. I want to ask this because at the computer science class I take at my highschool we get taught a rather different version of C++, compared to what I find in more recent tutorials. A few examples:
  • There is no vector<...> type, we only use arrays
  • There are no namespaces
  • void main() is allowed by the compiler (in more recent compilers main() must return something, if I understand correctly)
  • Standard libraries still have to be written with a ".h" at the end (e.g.: #include <iostream.h> instead of <iostream>)

Over time I got used with the (apparently) outdated version of the language I have to use at school, but I was wondering: how old exactly is the C++ we are being taught? When were the changes I listed above first implemented?

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#2 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:25 AM

I picked up a C++ for Dummies book a loooong time ago which had the depreciated headers as well. It's print date was 2000 so that's a good time reference.

As for vectors, your class may just be avoiding the STL.
No namespaces? At all? Are you prefixing std:: to every cout/endl/cin?
void main() is a thing left over from C. Most compilers don't allow it now and it is considered bad practice (because the program returns a value to the OS saying "Hey, I'm done").

This would be better placed in the C++ programmers area. :)
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#3 diego_pmc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:31 AM

View PostKYA, on 17 Sep, 2009 - 06:25 AM, said:

No namespaces? At all? Are you prefixing std:: to every cout/endl/cin?

Nope. I remember when I tried to write one of those really simple programs a few years ago in class and the compiler didn't know "using namespace std;" meant. I removed it (without adding any "std::"-s anywhere) and then it worked. I get the feeling we are actually learning C not C++.

This post has been edited by diego_pmc: 17 September 2009 - 09:23 AM

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#4 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:38 AM

Are you using Turbo C++ by any chance? Sounds like it.
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#5 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:40 AM

Sounds like your school needs to update their tools/program. I'd rather do console compiling with GCC then Turbo or Borland. :)
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#6 diego_pmc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:44 AM

View PostJackOfAllTrades, on 17 Sep, 2009 - 06:38 AM, said:

Are you using Turbo C++ by any chance? Sounds like it.

I don't really remember. All I know is that the screen was blue, like in BIOS.
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#7 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:48 AM

Yup. Nothing like using a nearly 20-year-old DOS program. :rolleyes:
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#8 diego_pmc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:53 AM

View PostJackOfAllTrades, on 17 Sep, 2009 - 06:48 AM, said:

Yup. Nothing like using a nearly 20-year-old DOS program. :rolleyes:

Retro goodness FTW. :P
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#9 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:54 AM

I prefer to call it "fork in my eye" syndrome.
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#10 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 08:01 AM

The use of antiquated technology, and the outdated standards such technology supports, does not lead to the creation of a valuable future employee, which is ultimately the job of the professor and the university for which he or she works. It is an insult to the students that, given the availability of free tools which support existing standards and that are updated on a regular basis, these people choose to ignore them and impart their students what will be, once they're out in the real world, useless information.

/rant off
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#11 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 08:04 AM

View PostJackOfAllTrades, on 17 Sep, 2009 - 08:01 AM, said:

The use of antiquated technology, and the outdated standards such technology supports, does not lead to the creation of a valuable future employee, which is ultimately the job of the professor and the university for which he or she works. It is an insult to the students that, given the availability of free tools which support existing standards and that are updated on a regular basis, these people choose to ignore them and impart their students what will be, once they're out in the real world, useless information.

/rant off



Posted Image


Can we move this to the C++ programmers forum? It's a decent discussion

This post has been edited by KYA: 17 September 2009 - 08:04 AM

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#12 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 08:14 AM

The thing is, this is not going to change until the existing professors -- safe in their tenured positions, no doubt -- retire and hand over the reins to those who know better. However, there's always the possibility that those to whom their duties will be relinquished learned from their mentors and never experienced the real world themselves...a vicious circle of ignorance.
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#13 diego_pmc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 08:15 AM

View PostJackOfAllTrades, on 17 Sep, 2009 - 07:01 AM, said:

The use of antiquated technology, and the outdated standards such technology supports, does not lead to the creation of a valuable future employee, which is ultimately the job of the professor and the university for which he or she works. It is an insult to the students that, given the availability of free tools which support existing standards and that are updated on a regular basis, these people choose to ignore them and impart their students what will be, once they're out in the real world, useless information.

That alone wouldn't be as bad if only the teachers were at least aware of the new standards. My former teacher didn't even seem to know what that namespace thingy I just asked about was. We have a new teacher this year I've only known her for a week, but she seems like a pretty good teacher (she's pleasant, open-minded, but she also holds high standards), but from what I've seen she's using the same old version of the language as the former teacher.

View PostKYA, on 17 Sep, 2009 - 07:04 AM, said:

Can we move this to the C++ programmers forum? It's a decent discussion

Fine with me.

This post has been edited by diego_pmc: 17 September 2009 - 08:16 AM

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#14 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 08:18 AM

View Postdiego_pmc, on 17 Sep, 2009 - 10:15 AM, said:

That alone wouldn't be as bad if only the teachers were at least aware of the new standards. My former teacher didn't even seem to know what that namespace thingy I just asked about was. We have a new teacher this year I've only known her for a week, but she seems like a pretty good teacher (she's pleasant, open-minded, but she also holds high standards), but from what I've seen she's using the same old version of the language as the former teacher.


See, just as I said in the post immediately above! I was right...sadly.

It should not be the job of the students to teach the professors, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that's what will need to happen.

Also: changed the title to more accurately reflect the nature of the discussion.
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#15 rgfirefly24  Icon User is online

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Re: Learning Outdated C++ Standards

Posted 17 September 2009 - 09:10 AM

There is no reason not to learn "the old way" of doing things IMO. When you get out into the world you never know if your going to be working on Existing Systems or doing new development. Its like saying OK I'm going to Learn ASP.NET but go to work on an ASP Classic site.
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