[WolfCoder]

ccubed, on 8 Oct, 2009 - 10:21 PM, said:

...We've overused medicine and it's coming back on us...

Again people, do I really have to compare society now and the way it was when people were dying like flies out of illnesses we can now prevent with vaccines? Over-using!? Give me a break, lots of us would be dead if it weren't for all this medicine you keep ripping on.

(edit links) Actually, you should really go and research it all yourself.

ccubed, on 9 Oct, 2009 - 04:45 AM, said:

...so why are you forced to? School? College doesn't require every vaccine that comes along and they can only force you to have basic immunizations.

Quote

Yet I'm to be forced to take a vaccine that was created this year. They have not even tested it, & I'm supposed to allow them to put into my body. Bull-shit!

Well, I do agree with the overreaction to Swine Flu. However, when a lethal version of some other virus comes out, one of us is going to be alive and one of us is going to be dead.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 09 October 2009 - 06:11 AM

[ccubed]

WolfCoder, on 9 Oct, 2009 - 04:59 AM, said:

ccubed, on 8 Oct, 2009 - 10:21 PM, said:

...We've overused medicine and it's coming back on us...

Again people, do I really have to compare society now and the way it was when people were dying like flies out of illnesses we can now prevent with vaccines? Over-using!? Give me a break, lots of us would be dead if it weren't for all this medicine you keep ripping on.

(edit links) Actually, you should really go and research it all yourself.

It seems you're the one that needs to do research. You cannot deny that it is a medical fact that the overuse of medicine is the reason we have strains of viri that are resistant or immune to our current medicine. Viri evolve just like we do.

Edit: Actually, I'll help you out. Go take a look at this. http://www.nlm.nih.g..._tb_082409.html
What's that you ask? Oh, just a video documenting how the overuse of medicine has allowed a medicine resistant strain of TB to be produced.

In fact, just googling overuse of antibiotics results in 135,000 links, most of which are .gov, .org or reputable companies.

This post has been edited by ccubed: 09 October 2009 - 07:59 AM

[WolfCoder]

Popularity does not mean truth. While I am willing to admit that I might be mistaken in terms of antibiotics causing new strains (Even though it would need some real evidence to support it, it's interesting enough to learn more) but, I would like to see some peer reviewed literature on the subject. While I linked you to the CDC, that was just Q&A to clear up a definition of immunization VS. vaccines. If you notice, my opinion of vaccines have changed in the time span of this thread after hearing explanations from actual researchers of this subject.

Unfortunately, I don't think any of us are medical doctors and we're all probably wrong in some degree.

As far as antibiotics go, so far, the only problem I know of is losing the bacteria that you need. You can eat types of yogurt with the kinds of cultures you need to replace lost bacteria, and the weakening effects of subsequent uses of antibiotics. I could be dead if it weren't for antibiotics to prevent infections.

Just having a .gov or .org does not mean reputable. I know a emulation website with a .org at the end. And Google "Vaccines and Autism" to get lots of hits- it doesn't make it any more or less reputable.


However, my argument was really anchored to vaccines and forced vaccines. I'm really reacting to the "They can't force me to have vaccines!!". Be grateful this isn't other countries where they really do inject you with weird crap.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 09 October 2009 - 06:02 PM

[ccubed]

I'm not necessarily saying vaccines are bad either. I'm just saying that overuse of medicine, such as in the case of TB or the common cold, is leading towards new strains of viri that the medicine do not work on.

I really don't see a problem with the country requiring people to have certain immunizations, I just don't think vaccines should be mandatory.

However, it appears we're in agreement on every other point.

Also, I consider the National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health to be pretty sure fire medical sources.

[optix212]

i won't get a forced vaccine. i know that.

but the american population is not the governments guinea pigs, the military is, so before they even start giving it to civilians, you can be sure than our soldiers will be pumped full of the shit.

[WolfCoder]

optix212, on 11 Oct, 2009 - 04:30 PM, said:

i won't get a forced vaccine. i know that.
...

And when I get a vaccine for a future disease, I'll get to watch all of you regret those words as you choke on melted pieces of your own lungs (I don't think there's a sickness that will actually do that, but you get the picture).

That's actually kind of horrible. While there won't be anything I could really do, I will make sure my loved ones are immune. Let's hope that there won't be an example like this to teach you the significance of vaccines.

While I think Swine Flu is overrated and I won't plan on getting the vaccine, that's only because the mortality rate is very low and I've got a working immune system. I can fend off the regular flu just fine, and more people die from that.

[OliveOyl3471]

Quote

Again people, do I really have to compare society now and the way it was when people were dying like flies out of illnesses we can now prevent with vaccines? Over-using!? Give me a break, lots of us would be dead if it weren't for all this medicine you keep ripping on.

That's one cure for this over-population problem we have today.

Quote

Well, I do agree with the overreaction to Swine Flu. However, when a lethal version of some other virus comes out, one of us is going to be alive and one of us is going to be dead.

If I'm dead, you can continue this argument without me.



/*in case you couldn't tell... */

[NickDMax]

In the case of Pandemic spread of a virulent deadly strain of an infectious agent -- Take the vaccine or get shot in the head. If it turns you into a mutant flesh eating zombie whose children have cantaloupe sized tumors.... opse.

Crisis law is a goofy thing. Because there are times when we seriously need to curb freedoms to ensure the safety of the populous as a whole. That is to say, if the building is full of explosive gas, I can't let you smoke, you'll kill us all. Yes, I believe that you have the right to smoke, I hate these anti-smoking laws as much as any cancer-ridden-chain-smokin-SOB but when the room is filled with explosive gas I would rather see your head cut clean off, than allow you to light up.

In general I don't think ANYONE has the right to force you into any medical procedure... but if your insistence upon your personal rights threatens the lives of the populous then fuck you, bullet in the head, you selfish pig headed mother fucker. Lets see if the next guy refuses.

All that said... I don't think I want to live in MA...

[no2pencil]

NickDMax, on 23 Dec, 2009 - 09:13 PM, said:

but if your insistence upon your personal rights threatens the lives of the populous then fuck you, bullet in the head, you selfish pig headed mother fucker.

"give me liberty or give me death"

[NickDMax]

seems simple enough...

no. This is the reason why crisis law is very difficult because you have to do things that one should ever consider in a non-crisis. You have to "make the tough decisions".

I understand the feeling of violation that such laws boil up in the blood. You should have heard the tirades I gave over seat-belt laws. I have always been a seat-belt user, but the thought of forcing everyone to wear seat-belts made me so angry I felt sick.

When I first read the description you gave I felt the same way... but then I read more from the article and I began to understand why such a law may be required (though to be honest, I would imagine that martial law would cover this anyway...)

[WolfCoder]

The problem here is that people don't know this is a building-full-of-gas kind of situation and aren't really understanding the severity of it.

[no2pencil]

I just don't buy it. Show me the proverbial building full of gas & I would gladly change my mind.

Instead, I'm told "Take this, shut up & get back in line". I have a HUGE problem with a vaccination that is rushed to market, not tested, & mandatory.

[WolfCoder]

Don't visit China.

[no2pencil]

Exactly my point. This is supposed to be the land of the free.

[NickDMax]

no2pencil, on 23 Dec, 2009 - 10:55 PM, said:

I just don't buy it. Show me the proverbial building full of gas & I would gladly change my mind.

Instead, I'm told "Take this, shut up & get back in line". I have a HUGE problem with a vaccination that is rushed to market, not tested, & mandatory.

Are you implying that this power is being abused in a non-emergency? Because here you can easily get me on board. While I believe in sweeping powers in times of crisis, I do not think that such powers should exist merely to prevent a crisis...

I suppose the nice thing about the building full of gas analogy is that if the gas is of the colorless/odorless variety it becomes a very interesting problem. Because until the match is lit, there is no concrete evidence that a crisis exits. One has to trust the "expert" with the "sensor".

In the case of the law in MA, apparently the "expert" is the Governor -- lets face it, governors don't have the best track record at recognizing emergency situations...