BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

I'm about to finish my BA. Will having the BA instead of the BS h

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#1 namkcuR  Icon User is offline

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BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 27 October 2009 - 01:46 AM

Some background:

I graduated from high school in 2003, having been the 'Tech Prep' program for the final two years. I went to a community college from 2003-2005 and obtained an Associate Of Applied Science degree in Computer Information Systems - Web Development. In 2006, I enrolled at Wright State University in Dayton, OH to get my Bachelor's Degree. When I started, they weren't yet offering a BA, only a BS, so I started on that track. As my second year was starting in the fall of 2007, they introduced the BA program. The BA program had additional space for electives, which meant that a good chunk of the courses I had taken for my associate's degree could be transferred, whereas hardly any were going to be used for the BS. The BS degree would instead require me to take a four or five additional math courses among other requirements. So basically, I was given the opportunity to get a Bachelor's degree about a year quicker and without having to take three Calculus classes. I felt like because I had started with two years in community college, I was already going to be 'late' finishing my undergrad work. Fast forward to the present...I'm finishing the last two courses I need for the BA, and will graduate in a few weeks. And I'm happy for that.

But I'm also a little worried. I have visions of employers dividing applicants' resumes into 'BA' and 'BS' piles and pitching the 'BA' pile. I've seen some places online where some older CS people laugh at the idea of a Bachelor of ARTS degree in Computer SCIENCE. But aside from the math, the CS/CEG curriculum isn't all that different from BA to BS, they only differ by a few courses.

Here's a run-down of the BA curriculum vs the BS curriculum at my school(Wright State University). I've included short descriptions of the courses I've taken). It is perhaps too much information, but I want to give a clear idea of what the education for the BA is and what additional stuff the BS has, as well as the few courses the BA has that the BS doesn't, so that at the end you can give a better answer to my question:

CS:
Courses on both degrees:
CS 240 Computer Programming I(in Java, very simple, conditionals, loops, variables, arrays, input/output)
CS 241 Computer Programming II(in Java, object-oriented programming, modularized programming, writing in classes/functions, GUIs, recursion)
CS 242 Computer Programming III(in C++, basic C++ for those who took java courses previously, more object-oriented programming, pointers, passing by reference, linked lists)
NOTE: the languages the above three courses are taught in are dependent entirely on the professor teaching them, so that's just what I got.
CS 400 Data Structures & Algorithms(stacks, queues, heaps, linked lists, ABS trees, binary trees, other kinds of trees, other kinds of structures)
CS 466 Formal Languages(automata theory, regular expressions, regular grammars, finite-state machines, induction proofs, etc)
CS 415 Social Implications Of Computing(computer ethics course, but more to do with the effect of computers on the world, research paper at the end, I did mine on the effect of computers on distribution in the music industry)

Courses on the BA but not the BS
CS 302 Client Server Databases(relational database design and sql)

Courses on the BS but not the BA
CS 405 Intro To Database Management
CS 480 Comparative Languages

CEG:
Courses on both degrees:
CEG 233 Linux & Windows(unix shell commands, basic operating system structure, how memory is handled, lots of assignments requiring doing a set of things in Windows and the same set of things in Unix and understanding the differences, shell scripting, etc, a breadth of things in this course)
CEG 320 Computer Organization(assembly projects, understanding the stack, the heap, binary math, converting assembly operations to binary, etc)
CEG 460 Intro To Software Engineering(UML, designing a project on paper, writing pseudo code, implementation, coming up with test cases and running them, quarter-long group project that goes through all the phases)

Courses on the BA but not the BS
CEG 355 Information Tech Systems(three-tier architecture, GUI/Logic/Database, wrote programs with a GUI on a local machine, logic on a remote machine, and database on another remote machine.

Courses on the BS but not the BA
CEG 433 Operating Systems

EGR:
Courses on both degrees
EGR 335 Technical Communications(technical documentation course, four papers, last one a research paper, I did mine on how the mp3 codec works)

MATH:
Courses on both degrees
MTH 228 Calculus For Social Sciences
MTH 257 Discrete Mathematics

Courses on the BA but not the BS
STT 160 Statistical Concepts
PHL 223 Symbolic Logic

Courses on the BS but not the BA
MTH 229 Calculus I
MTH 230 Calculus II
MTH 231 Calculus III
MTH 253 Matrix Algebra
You have to pick one of: STT 363, STT 360, or ISE 301 Statistics

NATURAL SCIENCES:
Both degrees require three natural science courses. However, on the BS, you have to pick one of four specific three-course tracks. The BA basically says, just pick any three natural science courses. The three that I took for my BA - two were astronomy courses and one was all about sound and light waves - don't make up any of the tracks on the BS. So I think I'd have to take three more natural science courses(each with a co-requisite lab).

GENERAL EDUCATION:
Specifics here don't much matter, but both degrees require 7 or 8 GE classes. I've taken Intro To Politics, Intro To Psychology, Visual Art In The Western World, Ancient Greek And Roman History, Comparative Non-Western Cultures, Modern Europe 19th and 20th Centuries, and Great Books/Literature. And there were also two basic English Composition courses that I took that are required on both degrees.

ENDGAME:

Courses left that I would have to complete in the future to attain a BS in addition to my BA:

CS 405 Intro To Database Management
CS 480 Comparative Languages
CEG 433 Operating Systems
MTH 229 Calculus I
MTH 230 Calculus II
MTH 231 Calculus III
MTH 253 Matrix Algebra
You have to pick one of: STT 363, STT 360, or ISE 301 Statistics
and three natural sciences courses

That's at least a year. Maybe a little more.

SO: My ultimate question is:

Will taking another year or more of my life to do all of that, especially when the bulk of those courses I'd have to take aren't computer courses - many have said the calculus courses are important to CS but few have said why, and I did take Calculus for Social Sciences - and get the BS be worth it - the time and the tuition - in terms of jobs in the real world? Is my vision of employers pitching all the BA applications at all close to reality? Or is the 'B' more important than what comes after it? Does the real world care about BA vs BS in Computer Science?

Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by namkcuR: 27 October 2009 - 01:51 AM


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#2 cmwise  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 27 October 2009 - 06:30 AM

I've always been told that the BS is what you should get... I've heard various reasons for this ranging from "Math is really important" to "It shows them another level of dedication." So, personally I'll be getting my BS, but I can definitely see the allure of a BA.

I'm also only in my second year of college, but just my two cents :\
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#3 Omegaclass  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 01 November 2009 - 06:44 PM

I am just wondering can you go to a university and get your BA transferred to a BS after only taking a few courses that don't transfer to their course work?

but i do think its worth getting the BS, so you should do what you can, after all we still are in a down turn in the world economy.

This post has been edited by Omegaclass: 01 November 2009 - 06:48 PM

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#4 Momerath  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 02 November 2009 - 01:12 PM

While the courses look good, an employer is not going to have a list of what you took. They are going to look at the "BA" and think "probably management stuff, overview, but not much coding". Depending on what job you are trying to get, this might be a good thing :)

This post has been edited by Momerath: 02 November 2009 - 01:12 PM

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#5 W3bDev  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 03 November 2009 - 03:36 PM

Really depends on what you want to do with it. Most jobs I look at require a BS at the minimum, for coding related job at a higher level. Omega, no, it's usually not easy to transfer over to a BS, because the degree plan is often very different for a BS.
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#6 toshiro  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 11 November 2009 - 09:48 PM

I am in a liberal arts university - many of our CS grads get gobbled up by various upstarts and major corporations (IBM, boeing just to name a few). All of my profs tell me that a student must be well versed in a variety of fields, not just how to program. WE all know programming can be learned on our own from a book. I believe that actual problem-solving skills exist outside of straight up coding classs.
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#7 charles54  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:10 PM

Remember the good old days when you went to college and they didn't even have a bachelor degree program for computer science? They may have had one or two courses you could take, but a whole discipline in it? Not a prayer. Well, my friend, the times they are a changing, to paraphrase Bob Dylan. Today, colleges offer some very extensive programs in computer science in order to keep up with the computer schools who have been offering computer certificates for some time now. Below you will find a typical bachelor degree program for anyone who wants to graduate with a BS in computer science.

Your first semester in college, when starting a program in computer science, usually starts you off slowly. They'll begin with what they typically call an Introduction To Computer Science. This course will include a history of computers and some basic terminology like bits and bytes, RAM, ROM, etc. It's not very difficult as far as your actual programming skill, but it does require a lot of memorization and that is the difficult part of it. There is just so much to learn. Many students actually can't even get past this part. In the meantime, while they are taking their computer course, they usually take other science related course like Calculus and Chemistry.

After a student finishes the introductory course, which can sometimes last for two semesters, their second year is where they start to pick the specialties that they want to concentrate on. This is where they have to make some very difficult decisions. They can either go into the programming end of computers or they can focus on things like networking or even computer repair and building. The purpose of the intro course is to prepare them for making this choice. Unfortunately, most intro courses are too weak to do this and the student is left totally confused and unable to decide where to go next. That's where the school councilors come in.


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#8 SpeedisaVirus  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 16 November 2009 - 02:08 PM

View Posttoshiro, on 11 Nov, 2009 - 08:48 PM, said:

WE all know programming can be learned on our own from a book. I believe that actual problem-solving skills exist outside of straight up coding classs.


I can agree some and can disagree in others.

While we all can learn to program from a book I find that most self taught programmers I have chatted with are clueless on the "why" parts of programming. Some things should be done in certain ways for certain reasons and it's a lot easier to understand if you have that theoretical backdrop that comes from the formal education. It's something that self taught people usually miss out on.

Now, the merits of a BA versus BS are debatable but employers typically are explicitly looking for a B.S. degree for that entry level job. The BS does get a lot more math and at least at my past schools, more CS work. In my opinion though, it looks like the BA gets enough theory by graduation that they should be fine depending on the sector they wish to enter. I teetered myself between the two...a BS meant an additional semester. I chose the BS because entry into the workforce seemed to go smoother for BS grads I had known and they had higher starting pay typically.

Once you get in the workforce the merit of your work matters more and which degree was earned may matter much less. There are perks with BA degrees like expanded language and writing courses and artistic endeavors which may benefit some fields. BS is more mathematical and lab sciences which also benefits other fields.

If you really don't feel you can hack the math or are more artistic, go for a BA. You will be happier in school and that will reflect in your GPA. Just don't sell yourself short on the math, the professors and TAs are there to help. If it's hard, pester them for better explanations outside of class.
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#9 OkinawanMatt  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:55 PM

I'm guessing it's probably too late to give you advice since you posted back in 2009, (it's 2012 as of this posting), but one of the top results for searching "CS 241 Wright State University" is this thread. I created an account just so I could leave a reply for any other students who end up on this page.

As you have probably found out, a degree in Computer Science can be limited in scope, depending on your ambitions. At Wright State University, a BA in Computer Science requires fewer courses in Computer Engineering and Electrical Engineering, along with Mathematics. Now that you've started your degree program in Computer Science, it should be obvious why employers would prefer a CS major who graduates with a Bachelors of Science (BS) rather than a Bachelor of Arts. The key difference comes down to your basic understanding of Computer Science theory.

Those courses in Mathematics, Computer Engineering and Electrical Engineering give you a firm background to a bigger scope of "Computer Science". CS majors tend NOT to know how their code affects anything outside of a virtual realm. With Computer Engineering courses in CEG 260, CEG 360 and a few others that are required or optional electives for CS majors aiming for a BS, you start to learn about the physical layer that actually runs your virtual programs. You learn that they are currently based on different types of FPGLA (or ROMs), and you learn all the way down to basic gate types of how they work (SSI -> MSI -> VLSI). With the EE courses (EE 331/332, EE 335), you learn an even deeper level about how your basic gates of AND-OR-NOT are made through transistors, diodes and other electrical components. You also learn how electricity flow is controlled, so you know that when you write a piece of code in C++, you can tell what line and what transistors are affected. Through all of this, you also learn the steps needed to minimize costs for hardware depending on what your software requires. With mathematics (Calculus I - IV, DefEQ, Linear Systems), you learn how to translate real-world situations into code OR hardware. That's something a CS-BA major will barely scratch, even though it's required in "real life" or at "real jobs".

If you have graduated, you might have noticed that more rigorous, prestigious or higher-paid positions only accept BS degrees in Computer Science. Bigger companies such as Reynolds & Reynolds or Nexus Lexus use third-party recruiters who stick to stringent guidelines for the first-round of interviews. A BS in Computer Science will open any door to a job in Computer Science, while a BA will automatically get your resume thrown out from about 70% of job listings. Companies like these have made a strict choice between BS and BA for a reason; they need someone who has the background theory to start cracking real-life problems with code. The lower-end jobs will pay you to maintain a database, create GUI solutions and what-not. However, for the higher-paid position that involves 5-year, 10-year, 25-year plans for company-wide computer program structures, you won't even see that first interview for an entry-level position. Your knowledge of 10 basic algorithms that came with your BA won't compare to a CS major who can solve linear problems, come up with their own algorithms, or know how to work with EE/CEG folk to minimize cost strategies.

I hope that helps.
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#10 Gungnir  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:36 AM

As a few people have mentioned, it's important to look at this from an employer's point of view.

Personally, I would be more inclined to hire somebody with a BS.
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#11 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:06 PM

Ive asked this question before and ended up more confused than before I asked it...

Ive been told in the USA BA vs BS is meaningless

not to mention, in my school, theres REALLY no difference between the two. BS just means you took two lab sciences. All the CS and Math is the same.

Also, they say a BA is CS is like getting a degree in project management or youll do web development, or system admin... but I see people with CIS degrees who are actually TRAINED for that doing programming. I just cant fathom how a BA means im not a trained programmer when I take all the same classes, minus two unrelated classes.

At the end of the day, im just sticking with the BS, because I dont want to deal with moron employers making stereotypes about people based on a piece of paper.

Also, it seems like your story is exactly the same as mine. Its funny that we had the same question. I have a AAS in CIS

This post has been edited by NecroWinter: 28 May 2012 - 05:07 PM

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#12 OkinawanMatt  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostNecroWinter, on 28 May 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Ive asked this question before and ended up more confused than before I asked it...

Ive been told in the USA BA vs BS is meaningless

not to mention, in my school, theres REALLY no difference between the two. BS just means you took two lab sciences. All the CS and Math is the same.

Also, they say a BA is CS is like getting a degree in project management or youll do web development, or system admin... but I see people with CIS degrees who are actually TRAINED for that doing programming. I just cant fathom how a BA means im not a trained programmer when I take all the same classes, minus two unrelated classes.

At the end of the day, im just sticking with the BS, because I dont want to deal with moron employers making stereotypes about people based on a piece of paper.

Also, it seems like your story is exactly the same as mine. Its funny that we had the same question. I have a AAS in CIS


NecroWinter, you may want to check the accreditation of your degree program at your University. By chance, are you attending a school that is nationally accredited, rather than regionally accredited? Is your CS program accredited by a national organization, rather than ABET? If so, you are correct. A BA or a BS doesn't matter for that type of degree, because the degree is worth the same as what you would earn at Phoenix, DeVry, or Grantham. Your degree, credit hours and knowledge would be non-transferrable to most regionally accredited schools, and you will be hard-pressed to find a job at a major corporation other than for entry-level jobs. In other words, you have earned a diploma from what is known as a "diploma mill", rather than an institution of higher learning.

On the other hand, ABET accredited CS-BS program usually require engineering-based writing/analytical courses, a couple of lab sciences, a couple of CEG classes, several math courses, and either a concentration or 15 semester-based credit hours in senior-level courses. An ABET accredited CS-BA program requires less CEG and lab science courses, and about 6 less semester-based credit hours in senior-level classes. That should amount to about 5-7 less/easier classes if you decide to earn a BA rather than a BS.

If the only difference between your BA and a BS is "two unrelated classes", you are either a) attending a school that is very strict in their standards, to the point of phasing out a BA program, or B) your school is not following accreditation standards by ABET.

I would be weary. First, check your school and program's accreditation. Secondly, if they are accredited, graduate as fast as possible so you can get your diploma before they lose their accreditation (or transfer your credit to another school so you can graduate from a proper University). Thirdly, if everything is up to par, learn a little more by taking those "two unrelated classes". The title of "BS" may not mean anything to you, and you may be skeptical of it, but it will help you earn job interviews.

As a CS major, you should have had 4 years of logic courses. In this situation, isn't it logical to conform to "stereotypes" of the real world, rather than sticking your nose up and shooting yourself in the foot? Your proposition suggests that you are earning a degree for the sake of material gain, rather than the sake of knowledge. If the real world will give you more compensation for "stereotypes" based on "a piece of paper", it only seems logical that you follow in these steps, especially if you are only "two unrelated classes" away from a different type of undergraduate degree.
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#13 time4f5  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:38 AM

there is a difference between BA and BS in CS. If you plan on going to grad school a ba will not get you into the program. A bs will. also most employers are looking for a bs. assuming you want to be a software engineer or the like. If you want to go IT, then a BA may qualify. My advise: don't sabotage your career over a year and a few math classes. you won't regret it. - easy isn't better.

wow - how is this post even here. it is posted in 2009.

This post has been edited by time4f5: 30 May 2012 - 07:39 AM

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#14 atraub  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:43 AM

The best computer science professor I ever had got a BA rather than a BS. He told me that, in his experience, a BS is unnecessary unless you needed one for a reason and that having a BA never really slowed him down. A BS will give you more options, but if you're not interested in those options, you won't really lose out on a whole lot by getting the BA.

This post has been edited by atraub: 30 May 2012 - 08:43 AM

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#15 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: BA in Computer Science vs BS in Computer Science

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:13 PM

View PostOkinawanMatt, on 28 May 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

View PostNecroWinter, on 28 May 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Ive asked this question before and ended up more confused than before I asked it...

Ive been told in the USA BA vs BS is meaningless

not to mention, in my school, theres REALLY no difference between the two. BS just means you took two lab sciences. All the CS and Math is the same.

Also, they say a BA is CS is like getting a degree in project management or youll do web development, or system admin... but I see people with CIS degrees who are actually TRAINED for that doing programming. I just cant fathom how a BA means im not a trained programmer when I take all the same classes, minus two unrelated classes.

At the end of the day, im just sticking with the BS, because I dont want to deal with moron employers making stereotypes about people based on a piece of paper.

Also, it seems like your story is exactly the same as mine. Its funny that we had the same question. I have a AAS in CIS


NecroWinter, you may want to check the accreditation of your degree program at your University. By chance, are you attending a school that is nationally accredited, rather than regionally accredited? Is your CS program accredited by a national organization, rather than ABET? If so, you are correct. A BA or a BS doesn't matter for that type of degree, because the degree is worth the same as what you would earn at Phoenix, DeVry, or Grantham. Your degree, credit hours and knowledge would be non-transferrable to most regionally accredited schools, and you will be hard-pressed to find a job at a major corporation other than for entry-level jobs. In other words, you have earned a diploma from what is known as a "diploma mill", rather than an institution of higher learning.

On the other hand, ABET accredited CS-BS program usually require engineering-based writing/analytical courses, a couple of lab sciences, a couple of CEG classes, several math courses, and either a concentration or 15 semester-based credit hours in senior-level courses. An ABET accredited CS-BA program requires less CEG and lab science courses, and about 6 less semester-based credit hours in senior-level classes. That should amount to about 5-7 less/easier classes if you decide to earn a BA rather than a BS.

If the only difference between your BA and a BS is "two unrelated classes", you are either a) attending a school that is very strict in their standards, to the point of phasing out a BA program, or B) your school is not following accreditation standards by ABET.

I would be weary. First, check your school and program's accreditation. Secondly, if they are accredited, graduate as fast as possible so you can get your diploma before they lose their accreditation (or transfer your credit to another school so you can graduate from a proper University). Thirdly, if everything is up to par, learn a little more by taking those "two unrelated classes". The title of "BS" may not mean anything to you, and you may be skeptical of it, but it will help you earn job interviews.

As a CS major, you should have had 4 years of logic courses. In this situation, isn't it logical to conform to "stereotypes" of the real world, rather than sticking your nose up and shooting yourself in the foot? Your proposition suggests that you are earning a degree for the sake of material gain, rather than the sake of knowledge. If the real world will give you more compensation for "stereotypes" based on "a piece of paper", it only seems logical that you follow in these steps, especially if you are only "two unrelated classes" away from a different type of undergraduate degree.


My university is regionally accredited. the program is setup so that the BA and BS is very similar, except for lab science classes such as physics or biology.

Also, going to college is about getting a piece of paper. If someone just wants to learn, I would recommend to stay away from college unless they can go for free. Professors dont teach you anything, they just guide you along. Most students learn more in their homework an projects than through a lecture, but absolutely everything about the college experience can be done without college. The problem is the employer
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