What Language To Use

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#1 RCQ Games  Icon User is offline

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What Language To Use

Posted 11 November 2009 - 12:48 PM

What programming language should i use to make a mmorpg i am going to use c++ but what other language should i use as well ????
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#2 girasquid  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 11 November 2009 - 01:28 PM

C++ should do you just fine for all the parts that you need to build.

Good luck!
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#3 RCQ Games  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:32 AM

ok what i am really wondering is if i should use java or c++
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#4 galorin  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 13 November 2009 - 06:24 AM

View PostRCQ Games, on 13 Nov, 2009 - 03:32 AM, said:

ok what i am really wondering is if i should use java or c++


Making a mmorpg, what languages do the other members of your team know?
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#5 RCQ Games  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 13 November 2009 - 08:55 AM

View Postgalorin, on 13 Nov, 2009 - 05:24 AM, said:

Making a mmorpg, what languages do the other members of your team know?


both
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#6 galorin  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 13 November 2009 - 09:44 AM

View PostRCQ Games, on 13 Nov, 2009 - 07:55 AM, said:

both


In that case, both are capable languages. Personally, I'd go with C++, but that's just me. I tried Java a few years ago, and it didn't agree with me.
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#7 Theaegd  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:32 PM

Between java and c++, go with c++.
but if you guys want to make a great game, then go with XNA and C#.
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#8 WolfCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:43 PM

You can't make a great game in XNA and C#, the language isn't that robust to handle it. I actually have a definition of great. It is defined in the sense of greater and lesser games for size. Big developers need something like C++ to run a ton of complexity extremely fast and have a team to do it.

If you're writing an MMORPG, you need lots of programming languages, tools, and it helps to have a team. C++ and JAVA are both the right tools for this job. Apart from this, you might want to add SQL, Flash, PHP, and other net languages to the list if you need website integration.

- XNA and C# is a tool invented for beginners and indie developers to make quick applications.
- It is great for speed development and platform deployment across Windows systems. It also is managed like JAVA to help with memory.
- It is not well-equipped to handle tons of power required for much more robust and bigger game projects, especially a project such as an MMORPG calling for more languages than just something like XNA or C#.
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#9 SixOfEleven  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 13 November 2009 - 09:14 PM

View PostWolfCoder, on 13 Nov, 2009 - 03:43 PM, said:

You can't make a great game in XNA and C#, the language isn't that robust to handle it.


Not entirely true. C# has all of the features of an object-oriented language. C# is a very robust language. The .NET framework, and the XNA framework, have many capabilities that simplify a lot of common tasks.

Quote

- XNA and C# is a tool invented for beginners and indie developers to make quick applications.
- It is great for speed development and platform deployment across Windows systems. It also is managed like JAVA to help with memory.
- It is not well-equipped to handle tons of power required for much more robust and bigger game projects, especially a project such as an MMORPG calling for more languages than just something like XNA or C#.


You are right. XNA was created to give game programming to the masses and it does fill that role. It does, especially with modern processors, allow you to create powerful games though. There are things that need to be improved. DirectX has evolved since it was first introduced and it will continue to evolve and as DirectX evolves XNA will evolve as well since they are tied together.

I will agree with you that using just XNA to create an MMORPG may not be the best idea. There are two layers of abstraction to get around. First, as you mentioned, C# is a managed language which means it tends to run slower than native languages. XNA is also a wrapper around Managed DirectX so there is that layer of abstraction as well.
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#10 GenHornet18  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 15 November 2009 - 03:25 PM

Did I read MMO right before RPG that's just a world of hurt waiting to happen. Although I made an RPG a while back in C++ with DirectX and it turned out alright with lots of room for expansion. So I would recommend C++ but I'm not sure how easily DirectX can handle high definition graphics over an internet connection (Never did any MMO's).
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#11 WushuMonster  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 15 November 2009 - 07:31 PM

Quick answer:

C++ is the most standard language used in professional game development, and MMO's are just like any other games but with a large, fast, online network connecting people together. C# with XNA is great for pretty rapid game development. You can make an MMO though in just about any language... flash, php. java, etc.

MOST of this speed talk is utter nonsense. I remember there were some poorly thought out benchmark tests showing C++ as around 10x faster, but often these tests ignore how a C# programmer would actually go about programming things. Basically because something works in C++ and can technically be done the same way in C#, doesn't mean it should be done the same way in C# for best results. Odds are any speed differences would not be too noticeable if you really understand the language. Can't really speak for networking though, as I've never done anything like that, and have never seen an MMO attempted in XNA.

Still, building an MMO is a pretty advanced topic that covers many different things, so it's one of those cases where if you have to ask you probably aren't ready to make a serious attempt at tackling that particular beast of game development. I'd say basically take an mmo and break it down into broad components (graphics, networking, AI, etc.) then take those and break them down to their basic components, and analyze what you know and what you need to know. Then you can find specific tutorials and have a better idea of what questions to ask.

This post has been edited by WushuMonster: 15 November 2009 - 07:36 PM

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#12 WolfCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:31 PM

View PostSixOfEleven, on 13 Nov, 2009 - 09:14 PM, said:

View PostWolfCoder, on 13 Nov, 2009 - 03:43 PM, said:

You can't make a great game in XNA and C#, the language isn't that robust to handle it.


Not entirely true. C# has all of the features of an object-oriented language. C# is a very robust language. The .NET framework, and the XNA framework, have many capabilities that simplify a lot of common tasks.
...


Let me rephrase that. Did I really say robust? I meant in terms of power. C++ is the perfect balance in speed and features. A great game loads up the PC in C++ and that is with heavy optimization. C# and XNA won't do a big boys n' girls job. If you're writing your own engine for everything, C++/C is generally the optimal choice.

My head is burning from a fever so I might not be clear this time, but don't forget an MMORPG is divided into tons of parts. The client is the typical hefty customer product. You typically give C/C++ programs to someone who is actually the customer if it's something like a video game. Remember though, that the server is a different story. JAVA and/or C# is probably a much better idea for the server.


Wushu, the reason built-in stuff in C# works as fast as C/C++ is because it is written in C/C++. Same goes for JAVA, somewhere a C/C++ program lights up and actually does the work. In fact, tons of these technologies are based on C/C++. The only way you can't be based on C/C++ is if you're based from the ASM up. I'm not really going to tell you to code an entire game in ASM though- that would be too awesome.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 16 November 2009 - 05:33 PM

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#13 SixOfEleven  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 16 November 2009 - 06:07 PM

View PostWolfCoder, on 16 Nov, 2009 - 06:31 PM, said:

Wushu, the reason built-in stuff in C# works as fast as C/C++ is because it is written in C/C++. Same goes for JAVA, somewhere a C/C++ program lights up and actually does the work. In fact, tons of these technologies are based on C/C++. The only way you can't be based on C/C++ is if you're based from the ASM up. I'm not really going to tell you to code an entire game in ASM though- that would be too awesome.


Most DLLs are written in either C, C++ or ASM. Unless you are working with a .NET DLL in a .NET project.

I would never suggest that C# is the perfect language for all jobs. For rapid development C# is a great language. You are also right when you said a server might be better written with C#, or Java. C# has a ton of classes to make this job easier to handle.

You could also get a performance boost by using a straight C compiler and forget C++. You would lose many of the features of C++ that would make writing the program easier.
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#14 WolfCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 16 November 2009 - 07:34 PM

I usually write in C myself because it's simpler, but I don't drop the OOP design ideas.
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#15 SixOfEleven  Icon User is offline

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Re: What Language To Use

Posted 17 November 2009 - 02:13 PM

View PostWolfCoder, on 16 Nov, 2009 - 08:34 PM, said:

I usually write in C myself because it's simpler, but I don't drop the OOP design ideas.


You are right, you can use OOP ideas with straight C. I've seen baavgai write some good ways of doing it.
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