If one had a massive project in mind...

and needed lots of help...

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#1 gryphin  Icon User is offline

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If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 25 December 2005 - 11:20 PM

Say someone had a project goal in mind. But it involved lots of man hours that would not pay until the end of the project. How would one get the help they need? I have an idea, but even if I were to have several programmers (even 10 or more actually) it would take probably at the very least a year to finish the project, not to mention that there would be no pay until the project was over and the finished product could be shipped for a fee. How would one find enough people to make it work out? And rough figure, how many programmers would it take to create say a new OS? One that would rival all others in the field right now... I know Microsoft said it took several "man years" to code XP. How long though if we used existing code, and perhaps the kernel from Linux, made some alterations for compatibility and then ran with it?

I am looking for people who are experienced in programming, who have free time on their hands, and are willing to work first and get paid later. Any one wanting to give it a shot? Also, I will need someone who is at least a little more knowledgeable about managing a team of people, and then someone who is WAY more knowledgeable about programming and weather it would be possible to accomplish this goal. Please send me an e-mail if you think it might be possible and want to help try...

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#2 snoj  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 25 December 2005 - 11:36 PM

sourceforge.net

rentacoder.com
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#3 Amadeus  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 26 December 2005 - 06:13 AM

Well, you asked a mouthful, so I'll try and answer very briefly, but before I do, it should be noted that sourceforge is for open source projects...if you plan on selling yours, I doubt you want the code to be freely available.

An OS is a fairly large undertaking, but it can certainly be done. You'll need quite a variety of programmers, from GUI guys to app developers, embedded kernel folks, and a host of others. It is worth mentioning that an OS needs to be fairly well integrated, so you should have at least one computer engineer (or the skill set), and at least one programmer familiar with creating interfaces between software and hardware.

To recruit, you can advertise at lots of coding sites and forums...check out OS specific ones. I'm sure many people would be interested in such a project.
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#4 Wizzy  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 26 December 2005 - 12:21 PM

Quote

How long though if we used existing code, and perhaps the kernel from Linux, made some alterations for compatibility and then ran with it?


Well it naturally depends on your working environment, if you work from 8am till 8pm, you are going to accomplish it faster than a worktime of 10am till 6pm, it adds up.

The other problem is, that microsoft and linux coders made errors in existing code, what about the media bug that exists in sp2 of windows and linux; the coders haven't yet fixed that, so you'd need your own solution.

The last point, where will the coders be working, will you also be requiring graphic designers for logos and icons, how about making a bank account fund that would interest you money for packaging and shipping the product.

First is first, you need a dream, then you need a plan, then you need to carry out that plan.
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#5 Amorphous  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 26 December 2005 - 11:04 PM

Hmm, probably hundreds of coders each doing their part could get the job done in a year or so. If they're not getting paid then it would take probably a decade (unless they had some other motivation).

And it depends on where you're starting on your OS. If you're programming it in binary, assembly, C++, Java, Perl, or some other language.

If you get programmers who just do it in their free time (which is not a lot of free time for normal programmers) then it could take a long while (if you want it to rival any other OS on the field).

You also have to account for debugging which may add days to debug.

The idea to make an OS that rivals any current OS is unheard since the best programmers are in companies already and because those companies which have the best programmers also have the most programmers. Whatever a small company whips out in a year they could probably deal with in a month or less.

One can create an OS by himself in a year, but it wouldn't rival anything except garage stuff.
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#6 Wizzy  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 26 December 2005 - 11:21 PM

yeah you have to let those programmers have free will too, what if they want to go dancing or something, depends on alot of things, but I don't think you'll get many answers from this forum, not saying that this forum is bad. Just stating that our programmers are only like small projects, this is on the map; you could change peoples lives with this.

It would be better going to a place like here and posting this subject.
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#7 Amadeus  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 27 December 2005 - 07:45 AM

Wizzy, on 27 Dec, 2005 - 02:18 AM, said:

Just stating that our programmers are only like small projects,

It may surpise you to know, then, that there are programmers here who have been part of some extremely large projects. Some of the memebers here have contributed to the Mozilla and kdevelop projects, as well as provided bug fixes for gaim and thunderbird.

There may well be many people here who would be interested in such a project. Others may find the concept interesting, but not have the time to dedicate. Still others (having been through it before) may feel that such a project requires a more structured approach, and requires a professional, modular and segmented project plan for success.
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#8 Wizzy  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 27 December 2005 - 04:53 PM

I'm sorry, I haven't realised since I have only been here since november. It's a shame we can't congratulate them for their success unless they make a thread about it, because I would definetly like to read more about it.
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#9 gryphin  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 28 December 2005 - 05:42 PM

I would like to know more about those that have worked on the larger projects. They would be of the most help to me. I am also going to talk to my professor at college. He is experienced, has access to files and programs I do not, and runs his own business as a software engineer. But I know I am going to need more than 1 experienced teacher to show us how, and more than a class of students that are only in their second semester of programming. So I was hoping to get some ideas on how to solve the problem. But for clarification :

The programmers who help will be payed, but not in the traditional sense. It will not be paid by hourly or salary, but more in shares of sales. Each programmer who assists in the project, as well as the support people (such as technical writers, people able to help manage the teams, etc...) will be given shares of the profits from the sales. It will basicly be what ever was not spent on media divided by however many people were involved. Until we would be able to form a company with enough resources to pay by the hour (or salary).

It would just not be until after the first release that this payment would be able to be made and new payment schedules set.
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#10 Amadeus  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 28 December 2005 - 08:04 PM

For example's sake, I will put my hand up. I have been involved in several large projects over the last 12 years...projects that inlude such items as
  • Enterprise grade network security applications
  • Mail server applications that touch over 2000 client machines daily
  • Contributions to several open source projects, inlcuding a mail cleint and popular IDE.
  • Applications to aid in physics and math research (some still in use today).
  • Various applications that have been sold commercially.
There are some others, but these do an adequate job of covering the breadth of some of the things I've been involved with. I'm certainly not the most experienced programmer on this site, nor the most proficient, but I do have some limited background.

In addition to my day job leading development teams for a large telecommunications company, I also run a side development company.

I mention these items not to talk about myself, but merely give visibility to where I'm coming from. Please do not construe this listing as boasting of any kind...I abhor people who brag, and I do not consider myself to be the best, or even close to it...like many others on this site, I am simply a professional programmer. Shyhawk, supersloth, cyberscribe and literally hundreds of others are as well.

To develop an OS, you need to have a total vision of that OS...from applications that will run on it to how it will interface with the hardware of a given machine (that is why I suggestested you need at least one computer engineer). It is an admirable and massive undertaking...but it can certainly be done.

I would like to point out that you mentioned taking the linux kernel...I'm sure you are aware that the linux kernel is released under a specific set of usage guidelines...and that those guidelines essentially prohibit charging money for it in most cases. Any code you developed using that kernel may be impressive, but the kernl itslef would still be subject to the original release conditions. It is open source....that means free (as in beer) and available to any who wish to see it.

Again, your goal is possible...very possible. It is simply a matter of getting the right perspective/design/visibility to the project as a whole.

You will need programmers to complete this (many of them, as well as a fairly long timeline), but you are a long way before needing programmers...design and analysis must come first.
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#11 Wizzy  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 29 December 2005 - 04:56 AM

I'd volunteer, but I only know a little C. Although I am good at PHP; umm, that is also missing from this topic, Programming Language. It would most like to be made from C if it was unix source files: ie...(unix source code files)
http://web.mit.edu/answers/unix/unix_source.html


You might also want to look at background information, read this...People use Perl for alot of things and it was designed to work on the web.

Hope you find some people for this task, sounds interesting :)
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#12 rahulbatra  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 29 December 2005 - 06:19 AM

A lot has been said already. I'll just add my 2 cents. Firstly there would be quite a few people here with big projects under their belt. As for me, the biggest project I worked upon was an embedded DNS server (BSD based), but that didn't work very well. Anyways I'm still a newbie in programming. But some freelance guys I've seen over the years are really good at their work. You might want to try a team of those.

Also, I don't want to sound harsh, but 10 people with a one year deadline to undertake a project like an OS, and that too a commercial one matching the best, is kinda far fetched. As for the technology, you'll have to read a lot of licenses if you want to reuse existing code so that you do so in a legit way. Also, the best bet is C only - middle level, less code bloat and more control.
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#13 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 29 December 2005 - 01:50 PM

Amadeus, on 28 Dec, 2005 - 09:01 PM, said:

I mention these items not to talk about myself, but merely give visibility to where I'm coming from. Please do not construe this listing as boasting of any kind...I abhor people who brag, and I do not consider myself to be the best, or even close to it...like many others on this site, I am simply a professional programmer. Shyhawk, supersloth, cyberscribe and literally hundreds of others are as well.

To be fair however, I think their is a distinct difference between the web application development chris and I do, and all projects you've been involved in. I think this thread was answered by the right guy :P
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#14 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 29 December 2005 - 01:54 PM

oh, and along the lines of what rahulbatra said, if you plan on using pre-existing code like the kernel from linux (as you said in your first post) their are indeed GPL licensing issues which would probably make it very difficult to make a profit.
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#15 Wizzy  Icon User is offline

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Re: If one had a massive project in mind...

Posted 29 December 2005 - 03:24 PM

I am just curious, is the wage a percentage or an actual figure, because you'll have to plan what to do with your money.
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