[Tom9729]

PsychoCoder, on 8 Dec, 2009 - 04:11 PM, said:

I'm sure it was designed to compete with Windows, but that just isn't going to happen.

What isn't going to happen? Competition?

[mocker]

This got offtrack fast. First, forget that it is Google and not Microsoft or Yahoo that announced they are changing search results based upon recorded search trends-

The question is apparently, is it ethical to track 'users' (ip connections really) searches? Even if you tell them. And use cookies to do it (which every browser gives you complete control over). And let them opt out of it.
Just fyi for you people that think you are entitled to privacy on the internet - try surfing around some of your favorite sites with cookies and javascript disabled. The cookies themselves don't contain your search history, but if you start getting porn at the top of every search, maybe you should learn about Privacy mode before you start complaining that Google is out to get you.

[supersloth]

AdaHacker, on 8 Dec, 2009 - 11:43 AM, said:

PsychoCoder, on 8 Dec, 2009 - 12:33 PM, said:

I just dont like the idea that even when I'm not logged into my Google account ... that they're tracking what I search for, then scew the results based on that data. I prefer to see the best results, not something they generate based on information they took without my knowledge...

So is your complaint that Google is collecting search information or that they're using it to determine search results?

Google has never made any secret of the fact that they log pretty much pretty much everything you do. It's right in their privacy policy, which is linked from the front page. There's nothing new here - they've always collected the information necessary to do this. The only difference is that now you can actually see them doing something with it.

As far as wanting the "best" or "most relevant" results, that's just silly. Both "best" and "relevant" are highly subjective. I'm sure the Google people would tell you that that's exactly what they're trying to do - provide the results that are best for you.

this, this, a million times this.

[SpeedisaVirus]

Wow...talk about a pointless gripe. They aren't doing anything that anybody else is doing. Every site that has any kind of traffic is looking at exactly what you are clicking, where you came from, and where you are going. Google offers you a way to opt out while logged in. You could also use your Google Chrome browser's incognito tab, your firefox private browsing(ctrl shft p), or InPrivate browsing in IE (ctrl shft p).

Any privacy you thought you had on the internet is an illusion. No matter what counter measure you think you are using, it can be defeated by someone that cares enough.

[ccubed]

I'm in your browser, eating your cookies and using javascript to get your credit card numbers.

Seriously, we're just NOW complaining about something that has been present in Javascript, PHP, websites for a long time now? Even DIC monitors what you do so it can tell people what you're doing when they look at your profile. You are an IP addres and an IP address that is tracked by your ISP first and foremost.

The internet has ALWAYS been about dissemination of data. In order to facilitate that, the internet has ALWAYS needed to know WHERE you exist in the world. Even when it was linked to seven or eight universities they had to know WHERE those universities were in relation to the NODE that was sending the data.

So really, you're complaining that google tracks that you search for 'fluffy lolcatz pr0n' and not complaining that I can use geolocation and an IP address to find your freaking doorstep? Priorities skewed much?

This post has been edited by ccubed: 08 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

[Raynes]

PsychoCoder, on 8 Dec, 2009 - 10:33 AM, said:

Raynes, on 8 Dec, 2009 - 08:56 AM, said:

I was going to make a comment about PsychoCoder being so far up a certain company's bunghole that he probably tasted curtains, but I changed my mind.

That was probably a good idea

** On Topic **

I'm not up anyone's ass as you put it, I just dont like the idea that even when I'm not logged into my Google account (which is quite frequent) that they're tracking what I search for, then scew the results based on that data. I prefer to see the best results, not something they generate based on information they took without my knowledge (If you dont read Google's official blog you would have never known about this, and I imagine the Average Joe down the street doesn't read their blog thus doesn't know).

Raynes you seem to hold it against a person if they support a company, is this because of some insecurity on your part, you have to put down others in order to feel better about yourself?

Aw, how cute. Subtle threats. Yeah, if you want to ban me for a silly little Microsoft fanboy joke, then so be it. As for the insecurity bits, since when do I express anger against people who like certain companies? It was a joke and everyone knows it's a joke. I do however smell some hypocrisy here. If you didn't act like a fanboy, nobody would make jokes about it. I'll leave this thread be. I have better things to do than respond to unjustified insults. Let the whine-about-google fest continue.

note: Sorry about poor formatting, I am typing this on my cell.

This post has been edited by Raynes: 09 December 2009 - 02:50 PM

[William_Wilson]

Wow, many heated opinions in here! I was surprised that no one had dropped the facebook name before post #24. They have a closed set of resources based on users history, friends history, ads clicked, apps installed and fans of both you and your friends. Personally I rarely click on ads, so in all honesty their efforts are all wasted on me.

While I do not personally care what kind of information is tracked about me, assuming it is properly anonymous. I must agree that the real point trying to be discussed here is as mocker stated:

Quote

The question is apparently, is it ethical to track 'users' (ip connections really) searches?

The debate I feel was initial meant to surround the topic of:
"is it okay that websites do this?"
which is not necessarily focused on Google, but due to their size and monopoly on the internet market, it is somewhat disconcerting that they could join this market race, but nothing comes for free and this is how Google pays for everything they "give" you. And at least they are up front about it, you just have to actually read the privacy statement.

Just because everyone is doing it, doesn't mean it's okay. That said, it doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong either.

[moonknight]

i thought this was going to be about there new CHROME OS coming out for net book. wich i so want to see

[Trake]

Just an FYI for anyone trying to turn this off, if you use more than one localisation of Google eg google.com and google.co.uk you need to change the settings on each site separately.

[[RTS]BN+VS*]

If you want to privately search, there are more then enough ways to do this. Privacy as a default should IMO not obstruct efficiency. If you can't live with that, you're really not prepared to the future.

[ccubed]

From 10 Dec, 2009 - 07:41 AM:

If you want to privately search, there are more then enough ways to do this.

If by more than enough you mean 0, you're correct.

Otherwise, you have no idea what you're talking about.

This post has been edited by ccubed: 10 December 2009 - 09:59 AM

[0xFF]

Time for the search engine wars again

http://duckduckgo.com/
http://www.shinysearch.com
http://www.dmoz.org/
http://www.hotbot.com/
http://www.dogpile.com/
http://www.ask.com/
http://harvester42.f...jss/Harvester42
http://www.lycos.com/
http://ca.altavista.com/ <<Remember when this was amazing?

[SpeedisaVirus]

0xFF, on 12 Dec, 2009 - 09:19 PM, said:

http://ca.altavista.com/ <<Remember when this was amazing?

Lol, yeah I do. I also used to use Hotbot for a while. Then Google got all medieval bad ass on the search engine world.

[ccubed]

SpeedisaVirus, on 12 Dec, 2009 - 09:22 PM, said:

0xFF, on 12 Dec, 2009 - 09:19 PM, said:

http://ca.altavista.com/ <<Remember when this was amazing?

Lol, yeah I do. I also used to use Hotbot for a while. Then Google got all medieval bad ass on the search engine world.

Hey, alta vista is still cool. What're you talking about?

[Choscura]

Google provides a free service to it's search engine users and sells space to it's customers. We all have used it's free service, many of us have probably at least considered using it's paid for service.

The whole idea is that using this is easier than writing your own web crawler and dealing with filtering out irrelevant material. If you play with web crawlers at all, this becomes the difficulty: filtering out nonsense and gibberish. This is the whole basis of Google's value: if they can't do this, nobody will use them.

This opens up a whole new can of worms, because the same words- in whatever language- can be used differently. If you are a linguist at all, the idea of a 'specialized vocabulary' shouldn't be new. If it isn't a familiar concept, the basis is this: there are certain words which are used generally which also have very specialized meanings, an easy example is the word 'Tap'. in a general context, it could mean to poke or bump something (as in, tap with a hammer), a faucet or spigot, or, for slang, to have sex with. a slightly more specialized context would be a tap as is used on a keg of beer: a highly specialized context would be 'tap and die', a set of specialized tools similar to drill bits which are used to put screw threads on pieces of metal.

From Google's perspective, they want to provide value: if they don't, they can't make money. So they have a vested interest in keeping track of your search history, so that they can provide you with better results by knowing what results to show you. Just thinking of objects or linguistic uses of the word, there are already 5 types of results you could be looking for, without, eg, looking for acronyms that have that same sequence of characters.

Google is going to be torn to pieces because of this, just watch.I'll possibly eat those words, but I will say that Google has a lot of work in the future, and it seems like they're too busy with side projects. Search engines seem like they are going to become more specialized, not more general. Maybe there will be 'switches' that we can flip as users in the future, in order to only get one category of results. However, the thing that hinges on this is that the search engine itself has to understand what it is displaying- on some level- and I think that this is still a way off.

This post has been edited by Choscura: 13 December 2009 - 10:31 AM