What do you use to make mmorpg's?

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#46 milleja46  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 12 February 2010 - 05:28 PM

Me i have been busy, and sorry if i came off as one of those n00bs. but the book i found called java demystifed that i got from library is outdated!!!!!! It is based on JAVA2. Who uses that i know we are up to java6 or 7 right? And i know it takes time and i am trying to get things together so i can start. Me and davidsen haven't got far. I have a new site milleja46games.co.nr and have someone else who might help me i will work on java and ideas this weekend. Especially since SNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hope things go well on projectn00b, and hope to see you around the web.

This post has been edited by milleja46: 13 February 2010 - 03:01 PM

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#47 milleja46  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:39 PM

Ok, if i was going to use say java, with eclipse as my ide, does anyone know how to use jmonkey engine, and blender along with that ide?
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#48 neos300  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:18 PM

For Blender you would just make the models and import them.

For jMonkey you would import the jar and write your game.

Honestly, from reading this thread, you shouldn't be trying to make an MMORPG.
It takes years of experience to really even start. I have been coding for 5 years and I have a full client and a basic server, but there is still years of work to be done. Right now the server can only support about 10 players, I still need to code in a bunch of core gameplay concepts, and I haven't even started on the design of the anti-cheat/security. That combined with art, sound and design, I have a good 5 years of work ahead of me if I continued by myself.
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#49 johnmatthais  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:42 PM

I'm just going to step in here and say a few things:

1. Java + newbie + MMORPG = big-time failure. Sure, it sort of works for Runescape, but as Wurm has shown, Java simply cannot handle a whole lot of online activity going on at once like that and still have low system requirements. C or C++ or use RealmCrafter/Unity/Torque 3D and learn C#/TorqueScript. You'll still have to know how to code, but at least it'll give you a good IDE and handle a lot of the graphics pipelines for you. Another amazing up and coming option is Multiverse, which has a lot of toolkits that will help you out.

2. In an MMORPG, just like any other online game, you not only have to code the game, but you have to code the entire server as well. This means you will easily not only have to learn said programming language, but most likely SQL and possibly some PHP, as well.

3. An MMORPG isn't just a lot of coding. It's easily just as much story writing and planning and there's a shitload of math that goes into it, too. You think attributes come out of thin air? You think the battle system comes out of thin air? You think buffs come out of thin air?

4. You're going to need a new computer, and you're going to have to run Linux on it. This computer will run the server software. This computer also needs to be a beast if you want any more than 50 people on the server at a time.

5. You have to make a lot of graphics. If you think that anyone's going to play an MMO that lacks in customization options in this day and age, then you're sadly mistaken.

6. I would, once again, like to stress the importance of having an epic story, and having to write each and every quest (100s, if not 1000s), and develop all the algorithms, develop the battle system, develop all the attributes, balance everything, go through strenuous testing, have more bugs than you'll ever see in any other project combined, have to create a lot of music to keep players from getting bored, etc, etc.

7. Don't use something cheap like RealmCrafter basic. Use the Pro version if you're going to use it.

8. I would like to really stress that you probably will see no progress that you are even close to proud of for 2 or 3 years. It will all be a tarball of code until then.

9. Friendly advice from a teenager to what I believe is another teenager. Don't be so ambitious. Create something small and work your way up. I've started with the classics. Currently, I'm working on interactive fiction games and a few Atari games and I'm working my way up to higher-level languages. I can tell you right now that you absolutely are not going to make any progress towards anything playable for years and years to come. Don't make the same mistakes I did and waste a few years thinking you can do it before realizing you haven't even really learned the language. Start small. Work your way up. Join a team. Make an MMO then.

This post has been edited by johnmatthais: 15 April 2010 - 08:47 PM

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#50 NeoTifa  Icon User is online

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 16 April 2010 - 05:56 AM

You don't have to have linux. Nazi.
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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 16 April 2010 - 01:43 PM

View PostNeoTifa, on 16 April 2010 - 04:56 AM, said:

You don't have to have linux. Nazi.

It's ignorant to ignore the fact that 95% of MMO servers or more are running on Linux. Either way, he needs a new computer, and it needs to be a beast.
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#52 lesPaul456  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 16 April 2010 - 02:39 PM

Interesting statistics.

Anyway, I'm sure that those who do use Linux for their servers only do so because it's free, or because of it's versatility. That doesn't mean you have to use Linux, though. ;)
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#53 johnmatthais  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 16 April 2010 - 02:58 PM

View PostlesPaul456, on 16 April 2010 - 01:39 PM, said:

Interesting statistics.

Anyway, I'm sure that those who do use Linux for their servers only do so because it's free, or because of it's versatility. That doesn't mean you have to use Linux, though. ;)

Well, in general, online servers will run matchmaking and select a host, or allow for dedicated servers with specialized server software to accommodate for their audience.

MMOs often use Linux (I've done the research) because of versatility, and probably because it's most efficient for what needs done. I've seen that Linux has become the standard for server running and most people will recommend that route.
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#54 SixOfEleven  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 16 April 2010 - 03:12 PM

View Postjohnmatthais, on 15 April 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

3. An MMORPG isn't just a lot of coding. It's easily just as much story writing and planning and there's a shitload of math that goes into it, too. You think attributes come out of thin air? You think the battle system comes out of thin air? You think buffs come out of thin air?

6. I would, once again, like to stress the importance of having an epic story, and having to write each and every quest (100s, if not 1000s), and develop all the algorithms, develop the battle system, develop all the attributes, balance everything, go through strenuous testing, have more bugs than you'll ever see in any other project combined, have to create a lot of music to keep players from getting bored, etc, etc.


I can't stress how many people neglect these when the start to make ANY RPG, MMO or single player. You don't just throw a bunch of code together and hope you end up with a balanced game in the end. The underline RPG system is a must as well as game balance. If the game is too easy the player will get bored and not play the game. Conversely, if your game is too hard and the player is getting slaughtered at every turn they will get frustrated and not play the game. In either of those two cases, and with the Internet, your reputation will go down the tubes and your sales will not be there. Nobody will buy a crappy game that isn't well thought out and playable. You should also include difficulty levels for the game that are all based around a base line. Having the game easier to play on the lower levels and harder on the higher levels to challenge the player.

Expect ANY RPG to require a lot of time, dedication, and probably money. MMO's will take even longer because of the other complexities thrown into the picture. I say money because you will more than likely end up having to pay either artists, musicians, or even programmers. Don't expect people to help you on the basis: You will get paid a share of the profits when the game is finished. People have living expenses, they have lives to live. You maybe able to get a group of teenagers together who are still at home with lots of time, but anybody who lives on their own is going to want a paycheck for their time, not the promise of profits at the end. If you are seriously considering joining a team with the promise of profits at the end, I seriously recommend that you think more than twice. These projects probably more often than not, never get finished. You've just wasted your time with nothing to show for it other than code if you are a programmer or arts/audio assets if you are an artist/musician. This is reality, not fantasy.
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#55 johnmatthais  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 16 April 2010 - 04:06 PM

View PostSixOfEleven, on 16 April 2010 - 02:12 PM, said:

I can't stress how many people neglect these when the start to make ANY RPG, MMO or single player. You don't just throw a bunch of code together and hope you end up with a balanced game in the end. The underline RPG system is a must as well as game balance. If the game is too easy the player will get bored and not play the game. Conversely, if your game is too hard and the player is getting slaughtered at every turn they will get frustrated and not play the game. In either of those two cases, and with the Internet, your reputation will go down the tubes and your sales will not be there. Nobody will buy a crappy game that isn't well thought out and playable. You should also include difficulty levels for the game that are all based around a base line. Having the game easier to play on the lower levels and harder on the higher levels to challenge the player.


Just to add to this. Great ideas are just that: ideas. They're a framework for something that needs a lot more nitpicking. You can't just expect to draw out your game engine, put the story and graphics in it and call it complete. Where's the meat? All you have then is a virtual world that you can't even progress in.

Also, I'd like to ask you: What kind of graphics are you planning to use? This could influence you majorly.

Also, as far as difficulty goes, Edward McMillen has written some amazing insight on it.

View PostSixOfEleven, on 16 April 2010 - 02:12 PM, said:

Expect ANY RPG to require a lot of time, dedication, and probably money. MMO's will take even longer because of the other complexities thrown into the picture. I say money because you will more than likely end up having to pay either artists, musicians, or even programmers. Don't expect people to help you on the basis: You will get paid a share of the profits when the game is finished. People have living expenses, they have lives to live. You maybe able to get a group of teenagers together who are still at home with lots of time, but anybody who lives on their own is going to want a paycheck for their time, not the promise of profits at the end. If you are seriously considering joining a team with the promise of profits at the end, I seriously recommend that you think more than twice. These projects probably more often than not, never get finished. You've just wasted your time with nothing to show for it other than code if you are a programmer or arts/audio assets if you are an artist/musician. This is reality, not fantasy.

Exactly. No one wants promises. They want paid. They're holding up their end of the bargain and they want you to hold up yours now not later. That's how being an employer, and an entrepreneur, works. You can't pay for help, you don't ask for it.

I'd also like to stress that a group of teenagers doesn't work, often times. Maybe a single teenager on a smaller project (or if you're David Rosen, a single teenager on what is one of the most popular indie brawlers ever created...but that's just it, none of us are David Rosen), and here is the reason:

- Teenagers are not at the height of their maturity. They don't have the experience they need in life to truly understand what's going on. They will all fight for dominance (I can already see that that's an issue with your 'pseudo-company' with the whole 'co-owners' thing rather than 'co-founders'). They will try to take everything they can and make it theirs entirely. They will try to control each other. There aren't very many teenagers that will join such an ambitious project that won't be this way. Most of them will probably be faking their levels of skill and your project will crash and burn.

Next, I'd like to illustrate that this thread is a bit off to me. Why would you ever recommend that someone use Java for an MMORPG rather than a C language or something similar?

Also, I leave you with one last point. You said you wanted to make an RPG and then turn it into and MMORPG. Stop wasting time worrying about the MMO and get working on the RPG first.
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#56 milleja46  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 17 April 2010 - 04:39 PM

I'm just gonna say this again:

Quote

Know what, SHUT UP! you guys have no idea what's going through my mind and what i have been doing on this project. The post about "being a quick synopsis" was before i edited it to what you see now. I am still getting used to not having the visual like with vb.net. Yes i am still a noob, and i'm not afraid to admit it. I'm tired of your rants, the story is still a work in progress, and i am wanting a few ideas from users before i really start, you have no idea what i have been doing on the project, because most of the info is shared through im with techgeek. The fact is i am still learning like all of you. The reason i disapeered is because i never got responses like i did when you guys actually started posting in this.


I know i have alot to learn, i am working on trying to make my parents let me get a job so i can get a new computer. But your rants are not nesscary. I know all that, and as i said i am still getting used to the no-visual of what's happening in java. And i'm actually kind of proud of the story we have now, though i am still working on it for you people who don't read the things about edits to see that the post about "quick synopsis" and the edit date of the story post are totally different, with the story one farther ahead in time. I hate when you people can't read.....

This post has been edited by milleja46: 17 April 2010 - 04:46 PM

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#57 johnmatthais  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 17 April 2010 - 05:03 PM

View Postmilleja46, on 17 April 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

I hate when you people can't read.....

Wow, after reading that response placed here as well, I'd be hard-pressed to say you're a hypocrite. Did you actually read the posts or did you just skim and assume that everything there was something you already know? Or did you automatically assume that I'm trying to insult your intelligence when I'm just trying to get you to face reality sooner rather than later?
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#58 milleja46  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 17 April 2010 - 05:41 PM

I know i gotta face reality which i am, but you guys are a little tough on someone like me, i actually read and got most of the stuff that's been mentioned to me before. Except the thing about the linux. I am really wanting to get a job so i have a computer dedicated to this game that could make a good server for the game.
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#59 johnmatthais  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 17 April 2010 - 06:04 PM

Look, this is the last I'm saying on it and then I'm leaving it where it is to sink or float, depending on how you take it on.

First off, I want to reiterate - Java isn't a good platform for MMOs.

Okay, now that I'm done trashing Java and its online capabilities, on to the important stuff.

Very few people hit it big in their first run. Very few people as ambitious as you are ever make it anywhere.

Yes, Richard Garriot hit it big easily with Akalabeth. Yes, it was an RPG. No, it wasn't his first game. Yes, it was a different time.

When Garriot was a programmer, and not just some "visionary" (whatever the hell that even means anymore), he programmed in BASIC and AppleBASIC. That was a different time. You could get away with it then, because it was pretty much all there was in terms of high-level programming languages. As a teenager, that's all there was to work with. I'd also like to stress that Akalabeth was his 26th (or some number close to it) game that he had created. He'd had a lot of practice before that. He then used that practice to create the first in a long line of widely praised Ultima games.

The thing is, you're not facing reality. You aren't taking anything we're saying to heart. We're being hard on you because we want to help you. We're telling you exactly what you need to hear, because it's reality. Reality if tough, and you have to live with that. If you can't live with it, you won't go anywhere. Soon enough, you'll hit a brick wall.

I guarantee you that anyone that could really help you would take one look at some of the posts you have on your forum and just walk away.

Be smart. Don't do what I did. You have to walk before you can run, and you have to run before you can jump. Don't try to jump the brick wall before you can even walk.

This post has been edited by johnmatthais: 17 April 2010 - 06:04 PM

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#60 milleja46  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do you use to make mmorpg's?

Posted 17 April 2010 - 06:18 PM

If what your saying is correct, i'm gonna go erase all messages that make me look like a fool from my forums tommorrow. The reason i picked java is because it is multi-platform when it comes to playing games that are made in it, if i am not mistaken, i didn't pick for the features.
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