women in CS

where are they?

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74 Replies - 6627 Views - Last Post: 04 April 2010 - 08:29 PM

#31 BenignDesign  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 26 January 2010 - 05:26 PM

View PostGorian, on 26 Jan, 2010 - 07:18 PM, said:

There is a difference between Chauvinists and the term male chauvinists


I have now learned TWO things today [See Twitter for my previous revelation]. Thank you.
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#32 Gorian  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 26 January 2010 - 05:35 PM

@B9 :) Anytime. :P
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#33 tuck  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 26 January 2010 - 06:58 PM

I've seen a few women in IT but not many that are administrators be it systems or network, but would love to see more.

I agree with Smacdav that some teachers tell their students they 'cant do it'. In some cases, just because it's difficult for that student at that time. I also think there are some parents that do not encourage their children to work hard for what they want.

As a father of three, I encourage all of my kids to work smart/hard and they can be whatever they want. Just because someone says you cant do it doesn't mean its true.

Now I have one daughter (15) that wants to be a Vet, my other daughter (14) wants something involving art (she doesnt know yet but I'm thinking Graphic Artist would be perfect but she needs to figure that out on her own), and my step son (11) wants to be an engineer and goto MIT.
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#34 SmaJLe  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 02:13 AM

First of all, I don't think that the "reading-reading-reading" method really helps in programming. I prefer reading once, then trying and then checking out with the book or debugger why it works or not. I agree with comparisons between programming and maths.. If you are good at maths (I mean if you really understand it, not just memorize it by hard, as some girls I know...), you should be able to program.

I think one of the reasons for women not coming to CS field is the picture, that men have in their heads. I had quite a few barriers in almost all educational places I've studied, that were created by "it's a man field"-thinking. Or "too pretty to have a geek brain" :D
For me, it became a stimulus to show that they are wrong and if they can't see that now, it means I can do much better than now. I didn't stop because I love it.

Another reason, in my opinion, is the way our brain works. Men are good at concentrating at one thing, whereas women are good at "multi-tasking". It's good to be able to concentrate, since you can solve specific problem faster. It's good to be able to multi-task, because then you can look at the problem from different angles and solve it faster. But both of those ways of thinking have downsides too. If you can't make yourself take your mind of a side-topic, concentration won't help. If you can't just sit at one problem, you'll start thinking about it. And then about tons of other things you have/should/will do.
Naturally, since women are better at multi-tasking, they became great housewives - looking after children, home and preparing food isn't something anyone can do. But I'm not saying it's not possible. That's why men went to the market (the war! :D )

Fact is, that everything IS changing, and not just now. More and more women find out, that they can just as well apply their logic in the market and help it improve. Just as well as there are men, who look as if they are made for babysitting. And it's cute, too.
And actually I believe that there HAS to be women in coding field. Mainly because that's a fresh way of thinking and seeing things - it's true that the way man's and woman's logic work is different. And I think it's great! By being different, we are able to do more in quality and quantity.
Differences should be encouraged, but there should never be stereotypes. B)
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#35 BenignDesign  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:09 AM

View PostSmaJLe, on 27 Jan, 2010 - 04:13 AM, said:

Naturally, since women are better at multi-tasking, they became great housewives - looking after children, home and preparing food isn't something anyone can do. But I'm not saying it's not possible. That's why men went to the market (the war! :D )


I can't decide if I should flame you for being a pig or give you leeway for not being a native English speaker, but I must say I am absolutely flabbergasted over this statement... and the fact that it is currently your ONLY post here at DIC. You were randomly enticed to join an online programming community just to make a comment about women being housewives?
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#36 WolfCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:49 AM

It's obviously a cultural thing. There's several female students with me in my operating systems class and other higher level CS courses, as more as time goes on. Also, for just the courses I have been taking, the higher I go in classes the fewer the male students are and the more the female students are. As an adamant feminist I find this pleasing.

Some old traditions really need to die.

View PostMila, on 26 Jan, 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

...
The number of women in computer science has actually been decreasing.
...


Source?

Notice how I reference my classes as to avoid blanket statements like this about all schools and countries.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 27 January 2010 - 06:53 AM

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#37 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:44 AM

I thought I was just weird when I say that computers and geek things give me a female boner. I mean, all of my girl friends get nervous around guys, don't like to eat in front of them (and if they do they eat very little and it's always something like salad), and don't like to joke around for "fear" of scaring them off. I don't know if I'm just weird, but I find guys easier to get along with than females! I will make a sex joke while shoving greasy, messy food down my throat (a lot too :P) on a date, and I take pride in what I am interested in. I am confident! That's what I think more women need: confidence! If you go around thinking that nursing or being a teacher is a female job, and it is up to nerdy little boys, yet you secretly have genuine interest in how a computer works or networking, STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Women these days are too timid.

And as for "scaring guys away" by saying something weird, I find that that's actually the best way to hold a guys interest! Just today I was talking to some people in my flight about community showers and said how a cadet from my jrotc flight did naked cartwheels, and this hot guy walked by and said "okay, you had me a naked cartwheels. Now what were you talking about?" And we talked up until pt started (like 10 minutes). Hey, not only am I showing that I'm not like the other girls, but I'm showing that I'm friendly, interesting, easy to get along with, and not a clone of society. :)
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#38 longbar  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:36 AM

View PostNeoTifa, on 27 Jan, 2010 - 07:44 AM, said:

That's what I think more women need: confidence!


Hear hear!

For a long time the powerful undercurrent of "women don't do well at math" just convinced a lot of women that as soon as they hit a snag, it was proof they couldn't do it. So they gave up. And that extended to all tech fields. So many women of my mom's generation tell me, "Oh, I'm no good at math." I don't hear girls saying that today -- and that includes "girly girls" who ace their math exams after spending two hours on hair and makeup. You don't have to be a tomboy to be smart anymore.

I do think there's an aggression and tenacity that comes more naturally to humans with higher testosterone levels (usually males, although lemme tell you, I know some chicks...), and that serves you well when you're up against a nasty bug. The "no I won't stop and ask for directions, I'm going to figure it out myself" attitude isn't always helpful, but maybe it helps you get far enough into CS to realize, "hey, I'm good at this."
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#39 TMKCodes  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 11:03 AM

It's somewhat annoying, i have studied Internet Community Technology at Vocational school and they were teaching also marketing at the same place. Well we had 4 female ICT students and marketing was full of females, the 4 female students were friendly and everything, popular with guys and got along with everyone, even tough they had their own odd habits. Then again these marketing girls, always were with their girl groups and never really interacted with the marketing guys.

We had 2 groups at every age, so 20-40 students per age. When i started the school, about ~35 guys and 2 girls, well half of the guys dropped out and one girl joined later, my group had 9 guys and 3 girls from those there was me and one other one who were good better than other guys at programming and one guy who was pretty knowledgeable with networking and hardware. The girls did everything, but when we had courses where we had to get a job for 2 months, the girls had to go and work at food shops and with computer stuff. Well few guys always went to their old schools to fix computers, but they really were just drinking coffee.

I think that if more females would join the fields of CS it might even grow a bit as talking with guys about computer stuff always goes from who has the best hardware to females, but with females you can easily talk about the concepts of programming, etc. Of course it's bit different when working you talk about work, but while studying having more females in the field might help guys to work more and not play that much.

Females like neo-tifa are the best.

But still there is field which is quite close to programmers and that is art and there is a lot females artist. So do we really need more female programmers or do we just want an programmer girl who can understand us and is easy to talk to when you don't know any other subject than computers.

while(horny == true) 
{ 
	bool result = wank();
	if(result == true) 
		std::cout << "aaah.." << std::endl; 
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}


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#40 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 11:17 AM

View PostTMKCodes, on 27 Jan, 2010 - 12:03 PM, said:

...

Females like neo-tifa are the best.

...



:wub: No hyphen btw ;)

This post has been edited by NeoTifa: 27 January 2010 - 11:18 AM

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#41 TMKCodes  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:07 PM

hahahaa.. :P Sorry my mistake.
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#42 MentalFloss  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:51 PM

I did a fly-by on this thread at break-neck speed so I apologize if this was already mentioned.

There's two parts to this I think. If you consider any of your programming classes you've taken (I've only taken classes in high school so my observation may be flawed), you will notice that about 70% of the class had absolutely no idea what they were getting themselves into. At this point, they will either drop out and decide to pursue other career paths, or they will stick with it and quite probably pass the class.

Of the people that pass, only a fraction of them will continue their efforts. The ones that took the class blindly but passed will probably not want to repeat the experience next year.

So, with that in mind, if you consider the ratio of boys to girls in a programming class it's possible that no girl who originally signed up actually completes the class. Multiply that by however many schools out there that offer programming, and you have a heavily skewed demographic.


OK. So there's that...

The second part is based on the fact that we are all animals - and animals want to mate...
If you take that ratio I mentioned above and put yourself in the shoes of a woman, you're going to come to the conclusion that there is going to be a hell of a lot of attempts to mate with you. Couple this with the (very real but not always true) notion that all the male programmers have asperger's syndrome and you will come to the crux of the problem.

No one wants to deal with excessive amounts of attempts to get in your pants. I believe this is what ultimately pushes the females who were able maintain their sights on their career path out the door forever.
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#43 Sergio Tapia  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:52 PM

View PostMentalFloss, on 27 Jan, 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

No one wants to deal with excessive amounts of attempts to get in your pants. I believe this is what ultimately pushes the females who were able maintain their sights on their career path out the door forever.


Where did you go to school? In the three years I've been going to school not once did I see the guys hound on the 4 girls in my class. If anything they tried to get some poor sap to help them out with their homework (read: do it for them).
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#44 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: women in CS

Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:32 PM

It's the same at my center. While proportionately, it is male-dominated, the number of girls in each class is increasing each year. Plus, our new chairman is a woman (a former IT Project Manager). And at the very least in my class, the girls are just as prepared (if not moreso) than most of the guys (save for me).
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#45 Ben91  Icon User is offline

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Re: women in CS

Posted 28 January 2010 - 02:54 AM

In my class out of about 15 there is only one girl, and its the same sort of ratio in lectures too.
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