H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

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15 Replies - 5234 Views - Last Post: 07 July 2010 - 02:09 PM

#1 Programmist  Icon User is offline

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H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Post icon  Posted 02 July 2010 - 02:11 PM

Maybe it's just my experience, but I have noticed that every time in the past month that I have gotten a call from a recruiter who happens to be Indian (or possibly Paki), the pay rate offered is always $20-$30 per hour lower than their non-Indian counterparts on the same position. Not only that, I've also noticed that many of the H1B workers that I've known (most of whom also happen to be Indian) are paid lower than their American counterparts. I thought there were supposed to be laws against this kind of exploitation, but no one seems to be complaining. Maybe it's just a localized problem, but I'm concerned that it's driving wages down artificially. Granted, it hasn't yet affected some of the highest paying (senior) contracts, but it concerns me that it eventually will. Has anyone had similar experiences? If so, what can be done about it?

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Replies To: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

#2 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 02 July 2010 - 02:37 PM

You're only just know noticing this?

This has been an known issue/condition for years. Ask any freelancer... they'll tell you how hard it is to get a contract because in America we aren't willing to work 40 hours for US$100 (or less).

Keep an eye on Rentacoder.com (which now seems to be vWorker.com) and look at the bids and awarded contracts.
Wanted: An entire POS retail sales system with back of house inventory management and integrated on-line sales component.
Max bid: $300
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#3 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 02 July 2010 - 02:50 PM

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#4 nooblet  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 02 July 2010 - 05:49 PM

Maybe they're justifying the cost of the sponsorship lol
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#5 Programmist  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:03 PM

Yes - I'm just now noticing this. Not until this year have I received so many calls from Indian recruiters (usually out-of-state) with their insultingly low-ball rates. I guess I've just been lucky. I think what you are talking about is something a bit different. I'm talking about foreign H1B workers who are actually in the US getting paid lower than their American peers (which I think is illegal).

Many of the coders on rent-a-coder may live in places that have such a low COL that $300 might be a great week's pay, while to many of us that's not even a half day's work. It sucks, but what can you do? There's just no way we can compete with that - especially when customers are ignorant of (or just aren't concerned with) the quality of the code they receive.
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#6 Oler1s  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:24 PM

Quote

I'm talking about foreign H1B workers who are actually in the US getting paid lower than their American peers (which I think is illegal).
I believe it's setup so that it actually isn't illegal. Basically, the firms don't hire anyone other than Indian nationals. Thus, no accusations of discriminatory pay are valid, because, they aren't paying anyone else...
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#7 Programmist  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:59 PM

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The employer must pay the worker at least the same wage rate as paid to other employees with similar experience and qualifications or the local prevailing wage for the occupation in the area of employment, whichever is higher.

http://www.dol.gov/c...e/guide/h1b.htm
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#8 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 02 July 2010 - 07:12 PM

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I'm talking about foreign H1B workers who are actually in the US getting paid lower than their American peers (which I think is illegal).
It is illegal, if it is in the same company. But there is no regulation about a programmer in company 'a' versus company 'b'. Therefore all the Indian employees getting the lower wage are not being hired by the same company as the American coders. It's easy enough to form a different company on paper. Lots of corporations have many different companies under their umbrella.
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#9 nooblet  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:19 PM

You do realize that the H1-B isn't permanent status right? It's a way for them to get towards green card status. And that will require time (up to 5 years) and sponsorship money. The H1-B is only the beginning.
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#10 SpeedisaVirus  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 03 July 2010 - 08:35 AM

Says they should be paid a wage equal to those with the same experience...maybe they aren't being viewed as equal quality and experience from a code production standpoint. Sounds racist/nationalist but depending on their education and work in their native country, it may not line up with what an employer could call 'equivalent experience' in foreign worker 'a' to US worker 'b'.
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#11 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 03 July 2010 - 10:09 AM

Just for a non-techie comparison... My wife is from Australia and has been in the USA for about 18months. She has a great medical-administrative resume/background/history. She was offered a job 2 weeks after landing, before she was legally able to and had to turn it down. Then a week after she had her legal status complete/right she had a job as a personal assistant to some high ranking suit at the hospital. She gets the same wage as anyone else doing her job, and higher than some because they recognize her years of doing the same type work in Australia.

So it seems that in some industries, when comparing one country to another the experience is considered valid.

But honestly, based on most of the code I've seen come out of places like Indian outsourcers the experience is more negative than positive. Sure it's cheap, but its crap and doesn't adhere to any decent principals. I've worked enough freelance contracts that were "please fix the code that came from this other source" to know sometimes it's easier to scrap it and start over.
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#12 RyanRobinson  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 04 July 2010 - 03:41 PM

View PosttlhIn, on 03 July 2010 - 09:09 AM, said:

But honestly, based on most of the code I've seen come out of places like Indian outsourcers the experience is more negative than positive. Sure it's cheap, but its crap and doesn't adhere to any decent principals. I've worked enough freelance contracts that were "please fix the code that came from this other source" to know sometimes it's easier to scrap it and start over.


You've hit the nail on the head there mate. I have had clients with the same problem, "fix this for me please". I can, but the time it will take to fiddle around with it you may as well let me start from scratch as it would be cheaper.

Also, on sites such as elance and other freelance websites that use bids to win work, you see all of the bidders are from India or China that will do it for 1/4 of the usual price.

It is cheap work but I find that the communication (such as bad grammar and understanding) between the client and cheap coder drives the client to use a local freelance in the end.
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#13 Choscura  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 07 July 2010 - 06:00 AM

If you're worried about your job being farmed off to another country, it is surprisingly easy for you to go to that country and get your job again for close to your same wage, at least with big companies. Even with smaller companies- or hell, with freelance- you can go to wherever, get set up, and even if you're charging 1/4 of what you would have before, you're still making more money than you had been in terms of what you save- because the living expenses in so many of these places are so low that you can kind of just ignore it. I've got a wife, a kid, a house (townhouse- 2 br, 2 bath, living/dining, kitchen, workshop/laundry, office in front, parking for a car, only catch is no yard and it's glued into a row of identical townhouses), a small business running downstairs, a rented motorbike (buying a car soon), and all my fixed expenses come to somewhere less than 300 US dollars a month. For most people here, 300 bucks is what you'd make in a few days. So now picture making all that you need to survive and have what you want in the first few days of every month. I'm not really trying to sell this idea as something people should do, but really, it makes sense that I've seen so many people who do it here.
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#14 Programmist  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 07 July 2010 - 08:30 AM

That might work for some, but I don't want to leave my family (mom, dad, sister, etc) and friends and drag my wife (away from her career) to a 3rd world country just so we can save a few bucks. That seems too much like giving up. I'd rather stay in America and find other ways to thwart globalism rather than play into it.
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#15 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: H1Bs, Indian recruiters, and pay rates

Posted 07 July 2010 - 09:47 AM

Agreed. Life-style is about more than the cost of running your home. I like the variety of products I see in the USA, that I don't see when I go to other countries. One example: Soda pop. Go to a WalMart and you'll find 40+ different flavors ranging from regular Coke to Diet-Vanilla-Cherry-Caffine-Free-Dr-Pepper. When I go to Australia there is: Coke, Diet Coke, Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, Sprite. That's it. And the same analogy works with everything else from yogurt to TV models.

When my son visited from Australia he was able to build a new killer PC for under US$2000 that contained video card, bluray burner and 2tb drives that weren't even available yet in AU. And saved several hundred dollars on all the other parts.

I like my constitutional rights. I like owning (and carrying) firearms and participating in shooting clubs/competitions as a sport.
I like knowing if I have a motorcycle accident that I will be helicoptered to a trauma unit with qualified doctors. (been there, done that)
Or if I want LASIK correction is is $500/eye here, unlike the $2,000-$10,000 it is in some other countries. Or unavailable at all in some.

I like my central air conditioning, and this year's Dodge RAM with satellite radio.

I have been to Australia, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Korea and others. The only other country I could consider is Australia because it is still a Westernized society with a democratic process and a decent quality of life style.

I have no interest in living in a country where unrefridgerated chickens are sold hanging from a rod on a wheeled cart.

Yes the cost of living is lower... but just like coders and cars... you get what you pay for.

This post has been edited by tlhIn'toq: 07 July 2010 - 09:49 AM

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