[Scorpiion]

Hi, I just read this blog post

And as a computer science student I would like to ask what you think about this, or what are your experience? I'm not "worried" or anything like that but still this an interesting topic of course. If your company is hired new people what is most wanted, a doctoral degree or that you have 3-4 years education and have had your own company for 2-3 years? vs some other combo...

[nooblet]

Having your own company doesn't mean anything unless you've had some success with it. That said, typically these days a Masters or a Ph.D is highly favorable and in some cases a strict requirement. I haven't seen many that would rule a Ph.D over a Masters and at some universities, the course work don't differ, only the research aspect that comes with the Ph.D portion of it. That said, it's going to vary greatly depending on who's doing the hiring.

[singularity]

I agree with it 100%. It is a dead End.

[Programmist]

Quote

Many are willing to accept self-taught programmers, particularly if they have other skills relevant to the business. Some have implemented in-house training programs to allow employees from other disciplines to transition into software development roles...

Something he failed to mention here is that companies like to do this because they are usually able to pay significantly below market for someone who does not have a degree or is transitioning to a new career. Anyone who has been in the workforce for a few years knows that your starting salary is often hugely limiting with respect to your potential future salary. In other words, pretty much the only way to get a fair raise once you've gained enough experience is by changing companies. So, if a Company A hires non-degreed or transitioning programmers and only pays them cost-of-living raises each year, then Company A stands to make a good deal more money than if they hire experienced degreed professionals (they can be expensive). I'd say this is borderline exploitation because if someone is doing the job of a degreed pro then they deserve to be paid at the same rate.

I agree with his article to some extent. Programming jobs - especially what I call "commodity programming" (common, lower skill-level required) - will be harder to come by as they are sent off shore. That said, there is still a huge demand for smart, creative people (at least in my area there is). The best jobs, however, are those you find through your contacts and friends and not through an agency. Or even if you do go through an agency, knowing someone on the inside can be a huge help in keeping your resume from getting lost in the pile. I've been looking for work lately and I've received tens and maybe hundreds of calls from recruiters over the past 30-60 days. But the only positions that have turned out to be worthwhile are those that I've cultivated through my network of contacts. Your professional network has always been important, but now it's more important than ever.

[mrrockford]

Quote

The ability to act as liaison between coders and business managers is more important than a hard computer science background.

This is a Computer Information Systems degree that is almost not taught anywhere. The "translator" job between code monkeys and bean counters is a very needed job in these days of outsourcing and Management Information Systems "professionals" that know enough to be dangerous.

As in the Medical fields, it is hard to find that "General Practitioner" that understands a little about a lot and knows when it is time to get the "specialists" brought in. His job is also to ensure that management does not ask for the impossible and be able to explain it in terms they understand. Further he has to be able to translate to the coders some of managements confusing business wishes and be able to tell management that what they wish is not feasible.

If you are looking at something along these lines you might want to look at the IT program at University of Nebraska Kearney . Programming, teamwork, communication are put to practical use as several upper level courses require a semester team project that is a major portion of your grade.

[ItIntern3]

mrrockford: I am a high school student entering college in the fall for an Information Systems/Business Administration Degree at a small private college in PA! It was neat that you mentioned MIS in your post! I am currently working for a local company on an internship in IT this summer. I am doing Microsoft .NET development using C#, and VB. I also know Java, C++, BASIC, and worked a little with Pascal, and SQL/MySQL. I am learning a lot about the business processes and I've only been on the job (40 hours a week) for about 3 weeks!

[raziel_]

i hardly doubt that. in the age when computers do everything (almost everything) and the programmer to be out of job? i explain this with the crisis that rampage in the world. in the area where i live the only people that still can find a job is a programmer. and the only programmers that suffer the crisis is the beginners(juniors).

[modi123_1]

mrrockford, on 16 July 2010 - 06:23 AM, said:

If you are looking at something along these lines you might want to look at the IT program at University of Nebraska Kearney . Programming, teamwork, communication are put to practical use as several upper level courses require a semester team project that is a major portion of your grade.

Sorry - University of Nebraska - Omaha has you beat on the comp sci programs. Plus our building is newer, prettier, and has 8.7% more women. Go Mavs!

(Plus we have an integrated undergrad-grad program where you get an undergrad and masters in a total of five years).

This post has been edited by modi123_1: 16 July 2010 - 07:54 AM

[xTorvos]

[quote name='modi123_1' date='16 July 2010 - 06:40 AM' timestamp='1279291219' post='1067531']

mrrockford, on 16 July 2010 - 06:23 AM, said:

Quote

If you are looking at something along these lines you might want to look at the IT program at University of Nebraska Kearney . Programming, teamwork, communication are put to practical use as several upper level courses require a semester team project that is a major portion of your grade.

Sorry - University of Nebraska - Omaha has you beat on the comp sci programs. Plus our building is newer, prettier, and has 8.7% more women. Go Mavs!

(Plus we have an integrated undergrad-grad program where you get an undergrad and masters in a total of five years).

But if you're looking for a party, you can't spell drunk without U-N-K!

[modi123_1]

xTorvos, on 16 July 2010 - 08:49 AM, said:

modi123_1, on 16 July 2010 - 06:40 AM, said:

mrrockford, on 16 July 2010 - 06:23 AM, said:

If you are looking at something along these lines you might want to look at the IT program at University of Nebraska Kearney . Programming, teamwork, communication are put to practical use as several upper level courses require a semester team project that is a major portion of your grade.

Sorry - University of Nebraska - Omaha has you beat on the comp sci programs. Plus our building is newer, prettier, and has 8.7% more women. Go Mavs!

(Plus we have an integrated undergrad-grad program where you get an undergrad and masters in a total of five years).

But if you're looking for a party, you can't spell drunk without U-N-K!

That's the damn truth. Stupid tiki bar steps in the Holiday Inn (or did that change?).

[W3bDev]

I disagree that needs for programmers is on the decline. Yes, there are particular niche's that have been outsourced, but in my experience, outsourcing only goes so far, an Project Managers have a very little influence on ultimate outcomes of a project. If someone is having difficulty finding a job, they might just be looking in the wrong place. I have gotten many job offers in the last year or two from recruiters all over Southern California, because I have experience and am finishing up my education. Education sets you apart, but is not everything. Placing all your eggs in the education basket definitely is not the right attitude, but coupling education with experience and high-level projects will ultimately land you the gig you are looking for.

Don't look at economy numbers to make your decision, drive toward your goal and do everything in your power to achieve your goals, and I believe it will happen.

[Zekorov]

I have a good friend that knows infinitely much more about computers than i do; he works with their hardware work more than anything else but has dabbled in various types of programming languages. And about this topic, i agree with him. mostly, you should learn a lot more than just one specialty of programming. if you wanna go anywhere with computers, learn EVERYTHING there is to know about them that you can learn. your chances of a job would most definitely increase. There are many different fields and jobs related to computers, and if you know as much as you can about them, you have ALL those options to try.

[Topher84]

Computer Science is not programming. This article and a lot of users seem to use the two words as if they are synonyms. The reason you go to college should be to obtain formal training and a well rounded education. Obtaining a college education shows that you have some dedication.I do agree with the last quote in the article which basically says grades and where ypu got your degree doesn't mean jack squat if you are terrible at what you do. A lot of colleges to way too much hand holding through classes and windup producing uselessprofessionals who know nothing but have decent grades since they had their hands held. If I were hiring, id take a C student with some drive and knowledge over an introverted A student.

I typed this from my phone and the site isn't that mobile friendly so sorry for the typos.

[Zekorov]

Topher84, on 16 July 2010 - 07:40 AM, said:

Computer Science is not programming. This article and a lot of users seem to use the two words as if they are synonyms. The reason you go to college should be to obtain formal training and a well rounded education. Obtaining a college education shows that you have some dedication.I do agree with the last quote in the article which basically says grades and where ypu got your degree doesn't mean jack squat if you are terrible at what you do. A lot of colleges to way too much hand holding through classes and windup producing uselessprofessionals who know nothing but have decent grades since they had their hands held. If I were hiring, id take a C student with some drive and knowledge over an introverted A student.

I typed this from my phone and the site isn't that mobile friendly so sorry for the typos.

i agree with you too. CS isn't JUST programming. and like i said, if you can't learn everything in college about computers, go to college anyways, learn what you can, and then probably while focusing on computers in college classes, also use your free time to learn other things you aren't being taught in class. it'd probably help you in the long run anyways.

[W3bDev]

I know computer science is not just programming, but the article specifically discusses the programming side of computer science, so I geared my post to respond toward that aspect. Being well rounded is definitely always the best case scenario. At the company I work for, I not only take care of Software Development, but I also handle technical support for hardware, software and networking issues. At most companies, this is ultimately the way it works.

Yes, if you are terrible at what you do, you shouldn't expect to be hired anyway... but there are very few people who understand this about themselves.