C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Have you programmed in C# withough VS or another IDE?

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#1 Nakor  Icon User is offline

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C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:33 PM

I recently got moved to a new position at work (non-programming related) in which I am having to learn a bunch of error codes and actions to take to make corrections on orders according to those error codes. I was given several binders that were "supposed" to cover most of these errors and pretty much just thrown in. So to help myself out a little I decided to create a small program that would allow me to save these errors codes and the steps I had to take to fix the problem into an xml file. Now the next time I come across an error code that I've saved, I just select that error from a drop down, follow the steps, and I'm done. No binders, no asking people around me questions over and over. The interesting part in this for me was the fact that the computer is not intended for development and as such does not have Visual Studio or any real programming software installed. Luckily it did have a text editor with syntax highlighting, but no code completion. It can also run external tools so I was able to set up the C# compiler to be called from the text editor to compile the program as I was creating it which helped quite a bit. I was just wondering how many others have worked with C# without Visual Studio (or another IDE) and what tips or experiences they could share.

Edit: This was a windows form application, not command-line

This post has been edited by Nakor: 22 July 2010 - 10:36 PM


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#2 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:53 PM

The way I program, I couldn't work without VS. The debugging is just too powerful. Are you allowed to install anything on the machine? Microsoft offers the Express versions for free.
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#3 Nakor  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:57 PM

Unfortunately we're not allowed to install anything that's not company approved, we have our own "Software Store" where we can download approved software, which is where I got the text editor. Without finding that I would have had to go straight notepad. Yeah, debugging the program as I went was probably the toughest part. It usually involved me throwing in a messagebox in different places until I found exactly what was causing it. The text editor, by the way, is an older version of Crimson Editor.
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#4 PsychoCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:15 PM

If my employer wasnt willing to let me install the programs/applications I need to be productive then they wont be my employer for long, that's all I have to say about that.

How to avoid working for a douche-bag isa pretty good read (In my opinion).

When you interview for your next position there's a simple one lines questions you need to ask:

Quote

As a manager, what do you do to help your programmers do their job better?

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#5 Adkins  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:34 PM

As he pointed out in the original post, he was moved to a non-programming position. That does raise another interesting question though. If you are a programmer, then why take a non-programming position and try and turn it into a programming one?

As for programming with an IDE, I also could not imagine the hours that would be involved in debugging any modestly sized application. Plus I like to research new ways of doing things on the fly with intelli-sense and that would be out the window as well. Don't get me wrong, I am sure I could get it done, but I am not a fan of taking the hard way just to do it.
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#6 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:35 PM

I'm sorry you're in that situation and I wish I could give you better advice. Put together a proposal on why you need Visual Studio and present it to your bosses. Explain to them just how useful it is, and how much actual time you would save, and how much better programs you could create.

I mean, some things I just couldn't do without. I can put a breakpoint in at design, compile, or run time, and when the execution pauses, I can inspect the values of all variables in scope. I can modify them to fit a specific situation without stoppint the program. I can even back the execution up and have it rerun a section.

These are the kinds of things that I simply couldn't program without. Maybe stuff like that would be enough to convince your bosses to let you download TOTALLY FREE software.

I'm sorry if this is the exact opposite of what you wanted. I know it can't be easy to read other people listing the wonderful things you are denied, but I do hope you might be able to better your situation.
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#7 Nakor  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:47 AM

View PostAdkins, on 22 July 2010 - 11:34 PM, said:

As he pointed out in the original post, he was moved to a non-programming position. That does raise another interesting question though. If you are a programmer, then why take a non-programming position and try and turn it into a programming one?


I took the position because I've already been with the company a couple of years, it pays decent until I can find a programming position somewhere and it was either takes this position or not have a job which is not really an option when you're supporting a family. As far as turning it into a programming position, I haven't. I still get my required work done, I was just able to find time to create a program to help myself. I wasn't asked or required to make it. I'm not really talking about programming professionally specifically. I just thought maybe someone else might have tried programming C# without an IDE just for the sake of trying it. Do your programming skills really depend so much upon the software you're using that you couldn't program without it? I'm not saying it wouldn't be a pain, but it is kind of interesting to find out what all is getting accomplished behind the scenes that you just take for granted when using an IDE like Visual Studio.

This post has been edited by Nakor: 23 July 2010 - 04:48 AM

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#8 Adkins  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:57 AM

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. And I can totally understand supporting a family.

Like I said, I could program without IDE if the need arose, it is just not an overly appealing scenario. Sometimes though you gotta do what ya gotta do.
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#9 Nakor  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 23 July 2010 - 05:59 AM

I wasn't real clear I don't guess. I wasn't moved from a programming position into a non-programming one. So far my only programming experience has been with school and personal. I just thought of something that would make my job a little easier and I knew that if the computer had windows it had some version of .Net which would include the C# compiler. I just used the tools available to me.
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#10 Adkins  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:42 AM

impressive. Really, to do all that with your employer giving you so many hurdles is truly impressive
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#11 Imdsm  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 24 July 2010 - 06:17 AM

I can understand what you're saying, where I work, I sort out my computer myself and I have a pretty free leash, as long as I get the work done, that's what matters. But in bigger companies, like where my mate works, they have very stringent rules, and so you can only do what they say you can do.

Wouldn't it have been easier to make the app either at home or on a laptop, and transfer over either the files or the pre-compiled application? (I mean, let's face it, that can easily be done using emails)

As for them not providing you with the tools, this is understandable as you're not in a programming position. As far as I'm concerned, the receptionist doesn't need me to give her a hammer so she can build herself a footrest..

I've coded before with nothing but a text editor in a few languages, but not C#. For example, all of my design work is hand coded, I suppose you could liken VS to a WYSIWYG, some people work better with them, some people don't.. but at the end of the day visual studio is there to save us time, everything it does for us can be done, but most of us either don't take the time to learn everything needed in the designer or simply know that their time is better spent elsewhere, because they wouldn't work if they weren't given VS.

But, question is, how did the app run? Did you manage it? and more importantly, did you become a better coder for doing so? :)
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#12 Nakor  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 24 July 2010 - 06:28 AM

So far the app is running great. Displays existing entries, appends new entries and updates old entries without a catch. The experience, I think, was a very good one overall. I learned more about setting up a windows form, reading and writing to xml files, and about finding errors in my code. Now I'm just going back through it and trying to refine it somewhat(hopefully without breaking it!).
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#13 Nakor  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:20 PM

thought i'd post a screenshot of this for anyone that might be interestedAttached Image
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#14 Adkins  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:41 PM

Wow. That is really good work. Consider me impressed. How much trouble did you have getting the GUI the way you wanted it without the IDE?
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#15 Nakor  Icon User is offline

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Re: C# - Text Editor and Command-Line

Posted 28 July 2010 - 04:46 AM

that was definitely the most time consuming part. It was a lot of placing the control, compiling, running, seeing how it looks, closing, and repeating.
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