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#1 Scorpiion  Icon User is offline

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Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Post icon  Posted 18 October 2010 - 02:31 PM

Just read a blogpost by James Gosling about an article by Robert Strohmeyer's he had read in PCWorld,

Robert Strohmeyer's article in PCWorld
James Blog

Interesting read, thought people here might find it interesting as well...

The fact that Linux and Linux software is (almost always) free is good, it is, but maybe it simply becomes to much of the good stuff and that stops other good things and in the end Linux to get really big in the desktop.

You can write the best software in the world for free, but if you got more time to work on that same software, lets say 6 hour a day more (2 hour lunch and other stuff..), then of course it would be even better...

What do you think?

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Replies To: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

#2 SpeedisaVirus  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 18 October 2010 - 03:57 PM

There is some hit or miss. Take a look at the most successful linux desktop systems. They all have solid, revenue generating organizations at their core. Not for profit necessarily but there is a central org that has more cash flow in less than a year than most of us will make in a lifetime. Even with that, they can't possibly match the investments that Microsoft and Apple have in developing their OSes and that probably won't change anytime soon. The biggest disparity shows in third party apps. There simply isn't the commercial motivation to develop the level of polished apps you get for windows in a linux environment for a typical desktop user. The open source community has a lot of pluses but it's also made up of technogeeks. There isn't a swathe of focus groups to make sure the software is idiot proof, it often isn't.

If people were working on it 6-8 hours a day in force linux would flourish. It's been shown a friendly environment can be made out of it.

Enterprise settings are entirely different clearly...Linux has a lot of awesomeness in this field.
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#3 AlbuquerqueApache  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 18 October 2010 - 05:51 PM

Well, with all due respect to James Gosling, I have to disagree on several counts.

I think for the first time in it's existence Linux is proving to be a more common choice on the desktop. I think this is largely due to the Ubuntu project and their commitment to user friendly Linux computing.

Despite what the article stated, a real detractor to the use of Linux is it's difficult use. Let's face it, to take advantage of a lot of the Linux features you have to be a C programmer or at the very least familiar with a UNIX type computer system. UNIX computers definitely pre-date most modern computer user's experience. Most users today are use to Microsoft and the way MS presents an operating system.

However, Ubuntu is very rapidly changing that with kernel versions that support most of the modern hardware on PCs. No longer do you have to work with your hardware and find drivers that work correctly with Linux. Now its a simple download (that can be ran from windows) and WALA! you're running a Linux OS that 1. works with your hardware 2. has great support.

The only draw back for most people is the learning curve.


Oh! and I fogot one of my favorite features which NDISwrapper.

This is what made linux a viable desktop OS for me.

This post has been edited by AlbuquerqueApache: 18 October 2010 - 05:55 PM

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#4 eker676  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 18 October 2010 - 06:02 PM

Unless computers start regularly shipping with unix based oses installed then I don't think the linux market is going to take off.

It is simply too much of a hassle for normal users to figure out how to install and use linux. That's from personal experience. I dual-booted windows 7 and ubuntu and I was up until 4 in the morning trying to figure out why I could no longer boot into windows. After that it was a pain in the a$$ trying to figure out how to play wmv's. Then it was java... I could go on and on.

Linux is not exactly user friendly. You wan't something, you have to figure out how to do it yourself. For the person that wants it to 'work' out of the box, linux just doesn't do it.

My opinion on linux is, if you're just using it to say you use linux then don't bother. We all have enough things to do, why add more hassle to the day?
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#5 moopet  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:33 AM

View Posteker676, on 19 October 2010 - 12:02 AM, said:

Unless computers start regularly shipping with unix based oses installed then I don't think the linux market is going to take off.

You have heard of Macs, right?

View Posteker676, on 19 October 2010 - 12:02 AM, said:

It is simply too much of a hassle for normal users to figure out how to install and use linux. That's from personal experience. I dual-booted windows 7 and ubuntu and I was up until 4 in the morning trying to figure out why I could no longer boot into windows.

So you had a problem with Windows? If you installed them the other way around, you'd either have had no problem or be sitting here saying that you couldn't boot linux. For some reason, I imagine that being presented as "linux bad".

View Posteker676, on 19 October 2010 - 12:02 AM, said:

After that it was a pain in the a$$ trying to figure out how to play wmv's.

So you had a problem with a proprietary Windows file? If there was a proprietary linux file format, you'd have exactly the same problem in reverse, except... wait, there aren't any.
[/quote]

View Posteker676, on 19 October 2010 - 12:02 AM, said:

Then it was java... I could go on and on.

If you couldn't install java then you didn't give any effort into using the OS at all. Two clicks of the mouse will open up one of many package managers which let you install it with a further couple of clicks. Compare this to finding a download site, saving the file, running it, stepping through multiple wizard screens you're going to ignore anyway by pressing "next" and then rebooting your machine.

View Posteker676, on 19 October 2010 - 12:02 AM, said:

Linux is not exactly user friendly. You wan't something, you have to figure out how to do it yourself. For the person that wants it to 'work' out of the box, linux just doesn't do it.

I could not disagree more. You just have a different definition of "work" to me. If your expectations are that it's going to be Windows with a different logo, then of course it will seem inadequate. If you want a reasonably user-friendly system that will do far more than Windows with far less hassle, then you will say otherwise!

View Posteker676, on 19 October 2010 - 12:02 AM, said:

My opinion on linux is, if you're just using it to say you use linux then don't bother. We all have enough things to do, why add more hassle to the day?

Something we can agree on.
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#6 SpeedisaVirus  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 19 October 2010 - 06:41 AM

You disagree? Most people can't navigate Mac or Windows OSes. Do you really think an advanced typical user can navigate even the simplest hiccup in any Linux distro? I'm an advanced user and even get stumped at times. Much less having someone figure out what cryptic package name they need when they are "two clicks" away from installing something. Type Java into the package manager and you get several items. Which one do you install? I know...will Joe Blow Moron know? I also encountered the boot problems while dual booting Ubuntu and it definitely was an Ubuntu problem...not a Windows problem. More accurately a Grub problem which Ubuntu defaults to for boot management. As far as proprietary media files...I don't know. Windows will recommend a method for playing an unrecognized file typically and will attempt to get the required software...no linux does this.
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#7 AlbuquerqueApache  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:13 PM

View PostSpeedisaVirus, on 19 October 2010 - 05:41 AM, said:

You disagree? Most people can't navigate Mac or Windows OSes. Do you really think an advanced typical user can navigate even the simplest hiccup in any Linux distro? I'm an advanced user and even get stumped at times. Much less having someone figure out what cryptic package name they need when they are "two clicks" away from installing something. Type Java into the package manager and you get several items. Which one do you install? I know...will Joe Blow Moron know? I also encountered the boot problems while dual booting Ubuntu and it definitely was an Ubuntu problem...not a Windows problem. More accurately a Grub problem which Ubuntu defaults to for boot management. As far as proprietary media files...I don't know. Windows will recommend a method for playing an unrecognized file typically and will attempt to get the required software...no linux does this.



I kind of have to agree that Linux is not for a novice computer user.
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#8 moopet  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 19 October 2010 - 02:37 PM

For the novice user any system is good. It's when a user has been used to system A for a few years but is never going to be much good at using it that system B seems weird and complicated.
Joe Street wants to use email and browse the web. There's no real difference in that experience between OSs.

Quote

Windows will recommend a method for playing an unrecognized file typically and will attempt to get the required software...no linux does this

Ubuntu will prompt for the download of codecs for non-free formats the first time you try to play one. If it still can't play one because it's in a format where decoding it means breaking the law, that's the same with Windows.
I actually can't think of any commonly-used file extension that ubuntu can't either open or tell you why it can't open it. I'm wondering what Joe could possibly receive by email that he couldn't open? If he got the file from a website, it'd tell him what it was, and if he got it from a friend, that friend would tell him what it was. Anyone sending a file format nobody's heard of over email without explanation is going to get a reply saying "wtf?" regardless what operating system the friend is using.

Repeating, but rephrasing:
I see people struggling with all sorts of software every day. If they can't cope with their email client after a year of using it then they will probably never be able to understand these dang computers anyway. A lot of people just don't "get it". But if they fall into that camp, then they don't get it on any OS.
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#9 eker676  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:37 PM

Well, this thread gave me a little motivation to dig out the live cd and reinstall ubuntu.

I will say that everything is going smoothly so far. I had to revert to grub1 so I could boot back into windows but that has been about the only problem.
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#10 xclite  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 19 October 2010 - 10:39 PM

Once you're learned some of the more common tools available on Linux, you wonder how you ever did any work on Windows.
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#11 SpeedisaVirus  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java creator James Goslings thought on the dream of Linux

Posted 20 October 2010 - 08:16 AM

View Postxclite, on 20 October 2010 - 04:39 AM, said:

Once you're learned some of the more common tools available on Linux, you wonder how you ever did any work on Windows.


Totally agree. The tools are awesome.
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