[nimajneb]

My current job is about to be outsourced to another country so i've been looking around for another. I went to college to be a developer, and moved to Seattle 6 months ago to better my chances on getting a dev job. So far though, I haven't had much luck finding one. However, I have been offered a job as a job recruiter for a developer company. It's great money, but not exactly what I want.

So I guess the question is, should I take this job though it's not what I want? They really only want me if my heart is in it and I see it as a career. I've told them my thoughts on being a developer vs hiring developers. It will be a great work environment and GREAT money. But all the people that I'll be helping find jobs will be getting the jobs that I want.

Thoughts?

TL;DR should i not look a gift job in the mouth or hold out for something I want?

[macosxnerd101]

Take it for now. You can always keep looking. As much as I understand your desire to develop rather than hire, a job is a job in this economy. You could also think of it as a chance to learn more about the hiring process, which is some pretty good knowledge to have.

[nimajneb]

Pretty much the conclusion I came to. It'll be a great chance for networking to and it'll give me time to work on my own dev projects.

[nooblet]

1. Some of the best jobs I've ever had in my life were ones I weren't excited about and thought were bad. Until you do it, you're speculating. Don't come into the job assuming it's not what you want from it. It may still surprise you yet.

2. As an employer, I would hate to have people on my staff that aren't motivated and excited. It really doesn't benefit either party (employer gets demotivated worker and employee may not be happy with work situation). I would say as much as you need a job, if you're not going to give it a fair chance and you're only riding it until you find something better, at least come into it with the attitude of doing a good job regardless of how you feel, otherwise don't take the job.

3. What kind of dev job were you hoping for?

[nimajneb]

nooblet, on 29 November 2010 - 06:16 PM, said:

2. As an employer, I would hate to have people on my staff that aren't motivated and excited. It really doesn't benefit either party (employer gets demotivated worker and employee may not be happy with work situation). I would say as much as you need a job, if you're not going to give it a fair chance and you're only riding it until you find something better, at least come into it with the attitude of doing a good job regardless of how you feel, otherwise don't take the job.

This is a large part of it. We've openly discussed this point during interviews and they know what I think. That said, I am excited about this job. Great people and a great company. And I'm not the kind of guy who won't give 100% if I'm being challenged and am happy.

The thought process in my head is that I'm ready for a career, and I never considered recruiting to be my "plan"

Quote

3. What kind of dev job were you hoping for?

Rails mostly. I have a java background but have recently fallen head over heals for rails. Seattle has a huge rails community.

And tbh, with all this being said... I value my happiness over money. I've had shit jobs that pay well and great jobs that pay little. I prefer the latter.

[tlhIn`toq]

If you like paying your bills and having food on the table, at a time when 15% of America would give anything just to get a job as a 7-11 clerk... then take the job.

[calvinthedestroyer]

You could always hire yourself when you come across a good development job
Just don't put in your 2weeks notice until after you get your commission.

I have an interview for a field service job, I was told that I might be spending 2 to 3 weeks at a time on service calls. and that's the only bad part of the job. I'll have to try my best to stay interested for I know that the job must be good (nobody would do it if it was bad).

I can relate to what your going through, You should take the job since you have no pri commitments and leave your resume active. If something better comes along then you should move on. There is nothing that says that you have to commit to one company.

Quote

How does a company hire a human resource manager? Do the applicants interview themselves?

[Craig328]

calvinthedestroyer, on 01 December 2010 - 04:12 AM, said:

You could always hire yourself when you come across a good development job

I was gonna say the same thing. If you're looking for a job, hard to find a better place to see them all pass by.

That said, the job market is likely to start growing again. In my area, I've been getting hit a lot more recently by recruiters looking to staff contracts and temp-to-perm gigs (CF dev in Atlanta). Since a recruiter typically earns commissions you might be a unique resource: a developer staffing dev jobs. You'd have an insight into the positions that normal HR staff might not have. You might be better able to sniff out the un or under qualified applicants so as to not waste your clients' time. May be something you can capitalize on.

[blutrane]

macosxnerd101, on 29 November 2010 - 06:13 PM, said:

Take it for now. You can always keep looking. As much as I understand your desire to develop rather than hire, a job is a job in this economy. You could also think of it as a chance to learn more about the hiring process, which is some pretty good knowledge to have.

This.

money is money and you can always keep looking for something better/different, sounds like rewarding opportunity all around

[rgfirefly24]

You have to be careful though if your wanting to move on. Make sure that the Recruiting company you are going to be recruiting for doesn't have a policy by which you cannot go to work for any client that they service. That could severely limit your opportunities in your area.

This post has been edited by rgfirefly24: 01 December 2010 - 08:49 AM

[Craig328]

rgfirefly24, on 01 December 2010 - 09:47 AM, said:

You have to be careful though if your wanting to move on. Make sure that the Recruiting company you are going to be recruiting for doesn't have a policy by which you cannot go to work for any client that they service. That could severely limit your opportunities in your area.

Washington (where the OP is from) is an "at-will" employment state. That means either the employer or employee may break the employment contract with no liability aside from anything mutually agreed upon in a pre-employment contract. And even if there was wording in such a contract, it's exceptionally difficult to get a favorable ruling from a court if you're a former employer unless the former employee possesses trade secrets and went to a competitor. Seeing as how "employment agency" and "developer" aren't competing businesses, I'd say the chance are slim to none that they could do anything about it.

I've had a great many contracts over the years and the standard boilerplate is for them to try and restrict where you can be employed after you leave their employ. 99.999999% of it is crap and no judge in the land would uphold them. Essentially, it's an effort to restrict your constitutional right of freedom of association and unless there's a damned good reason, no judge is going to quash your personal liberties in favor of a former employer...especially if they're providing no counterbalancing interest (read: "money or other compensation") to the former employee.

[nimajneb]

Craig328, on 01 December 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

Washington (where the OP is from) is an "at-will" employment state. That means either the employer or employee may break the employment contract with no liability aside from anything mutually agreed upon in a pre-employment contract.

Very good to know

I really appreciate the different opinions on this subject. I guess there really is no point in NOT taking the job. It could put my foot in the doors of some very good places as well as provide a great learning experience. I have more of a moral dilemma in that they want to hire someone who sees this as a career, and I'm not sure I can be that person. But who knows? I might really enjoy this job.

[rgfirefly24]

Craig328, on 01 December 2010 - 09:58 AM, said:

Washington (where the OP is from) is an "at-will" employment state. That means either the employer or employee may break the employment contract with no liability aside from anything mutually agreed upon in a pre-employment contract. And even if there was wording in such a contract, it's exceptionally difficult to get a favorable ruling from a court if you're a former employer unless the former employee possesses trade secrets and went to a competitor. Seeing as how "employment agency" and "developer" aren't competing businesses, I'd say the chance are slim to none that they could do anything about it.

what your missing is the fact that the Employment agency can claim loss of income based off the fact that you took a job at a client site. They can claim that if you had not gotten that job that an employee of said company would have, thus earning the agency a commission. That is the main reason why there is non compete agreements placed in a lot of contracts dealing with Employment agencies.

[Craig328]

rgfirefly24, on 01 December 2010 - 12:44 PM, said:

what your missing is the fact that the Employment agency can claim loss of income based off the fact that you took a job at a client site. They can claim that if you had not gotten that job that an employee of said company would have, thus earning the agency a commission. That is the main reason why there is non compete agreements placed in a lot of contracts dealing with Employment agencies.

Wow. Can I use your analogy a moment? Thanks.

Fred is a salesman. A very good salesman and his sales make his employer an assload of munny. Fred decides one day that he'd rather not be a salesman. Fred's leaving his sales job immediately equates to a loss of income (because he's still the bestest salesman in the whole wide world). Ergo, his employer should be allowed to sue because they have experienced a loss of income directly related to Fred's recent abdication from his throne as World's Best Salesman.

Your example is lacking in several regards:

• most times that an employee leaves it causes a loss of profit for the employer (new employee training, HR workload, etc)
  
• the former employee's new position, unless his new employment directly exploits confidential and exclusive knowledge the former employer possesses, is immaterial
  
• there is nothing that says that if the man decides to place himself for consideration for the position that the former employer cannot collect a recruitment fee
  
• "Non compete" means in terms of the business they are in. Staffing and development are two entirely different things. Had he departed to another developer staffing company, this argument would have merit.

This has all been through the courts many many times. At-will is not a one way street. The same way Fred can up and leave his job with little in the way of consequence is equally balanced by the right of the employer to summarily dismiss Fred without grounds whatsoever. Fred may be doing a terrific job but his employer has the absolute right to terminate his employment at their pleasure and he has no legal remedy to compel them to retain him.

This post has been edited by Craig328: 01 December 2010 - 12:13 PM

[Kilorn]

I recently had to do exactly what you're dreading, by taking a job that I didn't really want at the time. I had been out of work for a few months and was looking for a C# dev position the entire time. After months of no income and having to sell all of my games, I ran into a former professor of mine who works as a project manager for a casino-style gaming company here in Atlanta, and after a nice conversation with him, I learned that they were hiring a technician. After a couple weeks of the application/interview/re-interview process, I decided to accept the job and I'm incredibly happy I did. The pay isn't what I would've been making as a C# developer, but it pays the bills and I love going to work every day. I'd say that if you need the money bad enough, take the job. You might end up really really enjoying it in the long run. If you're content with your current financial situation and you'd rather hold out for a developer position, then go with that.