[st_249]

Thanks for visiting my topic.I think this is an important question that we will need to discuse about it,because programmers are the last one who creat a designed software.

[hookiethe1]

Of course they should. Otherwise you'd have engineers designing the software at the highest level and that would be just silly. If the people who write the software have access to the big picture they are far better equipped to design the best solution.

[modi123_1]

Maybe it's just too early and today was a bad day to not have my Mountain Dew, but what exactly is the question?

Quote

Should programmers have engineering view to the problem?

Is not computing right in my head. Is this asking if programmers should have engineering classes? Think like engineers? Help a brother out!

[hookiethe1]

I assumed the question meant "should programmers know the big picture?" as opposed to "Here's a picture of a fuzzy cloud with outputs and a fuzzy cloud with inputs, do the bit in between."

Does that make sense?

[modi123_1]

Hmmm... well that is very divergent from what I was getting.

If that's the case then yes... a big picture is a requirement. I know of several instances where the PM or team lead held closed door meetings regarding a project and only threw out pieces of the project to the developers; thus hoarding the knowledge and retaining a position. That ended up poorly.

[lordofduct]

I read it the same way hookie did as well... but I did happen to have my mountain dew this morning.

I agree with modi on the answer to it in that respsect as well. I can't stand it when someone hoards chunks of knowledge on a project, especially when you can't see any reason to other then to secure one's position. I can name a million times this has occurred at different places I work, and it wasn't just in programming... IT directors, Customer Support managers and asst managers, damn even gas station managers.

And it all ended crappy when it occurred.



modi - what were you getting in your first interpretation?

[modi123_1]

I was getting something about how programmers need more engineering courses... like civil, mechanical, electrical, etc..

[NeoTifa]

hookiethe1, on 27 December 2010 - 08:43 AM, said:

Otherwise you'd have engineers designing the software at the highest level and that would be just silly.

Excuse me? First you kill kitties, now you insult my profession? Engineers are so freaking detail oriented, and plan so far ahead, that every detail that could possibly be on it/in it is considering and implemented in the design and prototype before they even begin building, thank you very much!

[hookiethe1]

Ah yes, of course, no detail has ever been missed from an engineering document.
If the engineer that I was referring to happens to be a software engineer, fine. Otherwise, not fine. You're an electrical engineer, but you're not about to go out and design a transmission tower, you leave that to a structural engineer, and you just worry about the wires. That's what I'm talking about, having hardware designers dictate the software, rather than both sides working together to come up with the best solution.

(As a side note, I have plenty of respect for engineers, and most for electrical engineers, I've done 2 years of electrical engineering, found it to be tedious and boring, but I also know how hard it can be, if not the toughest degree you can get, then certainly pretty high on the list)

[modi123_1]

hookiethe1, on 27 December 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

<...>
having hardware designers dictate the software, rather than both sides working together to come up with the best solution.
<...>

I am curious - what problems and solutions are you referring to in particular?

[lordofduct]

hookiethe1, on 27 December 2010 - 10:06 AM, said:

Ah yes, of course, no detail has ever been missed from an engineering document.
If the engineer that I was referring to happens to be a software engineer, fine. Otherwise, not fine. You're an electrical engineer, but you're not about to go out and design a transmission tower, you leave that to a structural engineer, and you just worry about the wires. That's what I'm talking about, having hardware designers dictate the software, rather than both sides working together to come up with the best solution.

(As a side note, I have plenty of respect for engineers, and most for electrical engineers, I've done 2 years of electrical engineering, found it to be tedious and boring, but I also know how hard it can be, if not the toughest degree you can get, then certainly pretty high on the list)

oh no, don't be critical of engineers... unless you find it fun.

It was some of our favorite past time in school. Even the professors would do it...

"Damn engineers, full of pride, but not a lick of mathematical comprehension in em'."


Of course it was all in jest. None of us really thought this was actually true or anything. Except for civil engineers, screw civil engineers.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 27 December 2010 - 11:24 AM

[modi123_1]

... and Ocean Engineers. There are something fishy with those googlie-eyed nerds of the sea world.

[lordofduct]

Oh man, don't get me on those guys. I slept with one of them before... I had to drink 3 bottles to erase that from my memory.

[hookiethe1]

Haha, I love putting shit on civil engineers, if it ain't concrete, they don't want to know about it! But as for math, I don't think there's a non-math major that requires more of it than elec eng, except maybe some physics or other science degrees.

modi123_1, on 27 December 2010 - 10:11 AM, said:

hookiethe1, on 27 December 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

<...>
having hardware designers dictate the software, rather than both sides working together to come up with the best solution.
<...>

I am curious - what problems and solutions are you referring to in particular?

I don't really understand the question. I didn't refer to any problems, and by "solution" I meant "implementation," they're kind of interchangeable in software terms. Are you asking me to give you a specific design example of when it would be beneficial for hardware engineers and software designers to consult with each other in the design process?

[modi123_1]

@hookiethe1 -

Quote

Are you asking me to give you a specific design example of when it would be beneficial for hardware engineers and software designers to consult with each other in the design process?

Sure, let me know an example that you have ran into that having hardware and software guys arm in arm solved a problem.

Truthfully I've been writing code for along time and have never really demanded them to hire a "hardware" guy. Outside of base level needs for having a computer working I am not really hardware confined.