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#1 KYA  Icon User is offline

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What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 15 January 2011 - 06:18 AM

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I found this link via twitter this morning and is an interesting follow on/up to the discussion going on in here and here.

To briefly summarize the post, the author lists three reasons why CS is on the wrong track in India:

  • Underestimating quality
  • Lack of passion
  • Lack of proper design


edited: It briefly touches on antiquated tools/academia/curricula that led to what is currently in their marketplace/industry today.


Which begs the question, is this because the post was intentionally targeted as a follow up to the initial link in the article or is it a case of "out of sight, out of mind"? Focusing on what currently exists without going too far in depth on the conditions that precipitated the condition seems disingenuous.

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Replies To: What's Wrong With CS In India

#2 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 15 January 2011 - 06:40 AM

Actually, it touched upon it:

Quote

Outside of IIT/NIT, the CS syllabus and teaching is horribly outdated and broken.


Interesting perspective, and some of the other out-links as well, like the one in the PS, where his Intro class professor stated:

Quote

… Linux is basically a DOS based OS.


Another post on that blog is more in the vein of what we've talked about here. At least someone over there gets it. Unfortunately, the next step for these people appears to be Dev-C++, which is at best a lateral move. How ridiculous, when there are so many other, better options out there.

Now to have someone send these links to the CTOs of Fortune 500 companies, so they can see what they're getting for the off-shoring dollars.

I worked for one of the largest Indian outsourcing companies out there (because our company was bought by them), and let me tell you. You have NEVER seen as much of a god-awful clusterfuck as what they had as an Intranet. All different pieces requiring different logins to go from screen-to-screen with graphics and design from around 1995. Absolutely appalling. And God forbid you need the IT department to do something for you...prepare to wait days to hear back without a priorty 1 ticket. And even then there's a 75% chance they won't do it correctly anyway. My fave was the guy who I had to tell to use the "sudo" command to run a program, and tried to use "pseudo".
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#3 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 15 January 2011 - 06:43 AM

You're right, not sure how I missed that. Fixed.
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#4 Nikhil_07n  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 16 January 2011 - 02:55 PM

View PostKYA, on 15 January 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

2.Lack of passion


This X 100. One can even get ridiculed for being passionate about the subject, I know I've been. :angry:

Do you have any idea how a student(*coughs* his parents) "decides to" choose his engineering discipline? Quite hilarious if you ask me.
A term "Boom" is excessively involved which signifies the demand of/salary offered to the graduates a particular discipline. Higher the demand/money, higher the "Boom". That and the stupid trend analyzers. Hell, for them Mechanical Engineering == CSE if both have equivalent Boom. <_<

Quote

Outside of IIT/NIT, the CS syllabus and teaching is horribly outdated and broken.


Don't know anything about the syllabus in IIT/NIT but outside that(at least where I'm studying), it's definitely outdated+broken. Also, the previous point holds good in IIT/NIT too. I've seen the admission process.. same shit.

<off-topic>
Personal Countermeasures : I'm trusting books+google only and avoiding college curriculum. However, I'm still figuring out "what to do now?" part.
</off-topic>
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#5 raziel_  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 17 January 2011 - 03:13 AM

What is wrong with the CS in India? The lack of one? The fact that they gather whoever wants to work no matter if they understand or not what they have to do? At least they are cheep working force right?
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#6 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:57 AM

Nikhil, good on you for recognizing this and doing your best to overcome it!!!

What you mention about the parents/students deciding was sort of what I was thinking was going on in many cases, along with the "I can make easy money doing this" scenario. The same thing, of course, happens here as well, which is why I look askance at CVs with DeVry, University of Phoenix, and other for-profit-type schools over here; too many of the people go into these programs lacking the passion and are just looking for the quick paycheck.
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#7 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:52 AM

??

All schools are "for profit". Otherwise, why would they be in business?
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#8 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 17 January 2011 - 09:04 AM

True dat, I'm speaking mainly to the schools that seem to mainly serve as diploma mills. There have been lots of exposés recently regarding these schools and their practices. My company's main office is very near a DeVry campus, so I've interviewed some of these people and all but one couldn't get past a phone interview. The one that did I understand went into the interview and argued with the Architect over something in which he was blatantly wrong, and maintained such a posture even after being told the right way to do it.

Hey, I'm even against the local, well-known polytechnic institute which 15 years ago gave me the certificate that allowed me to get into this business, because I witnessed first-hand the people that were given certs who had no business getting one and would be "ranked" at the same level as I once out in the workforce. Even knowing this -- and resenting it from the start -- I made the mistake of hiring one of them because I'm too easy an interviewer (contrary to what many may think in their dealings with me here, I tend to take people at their word on a résumé, because I don't embellish mine at all). I ended up directly feeling the pain because he was supposed to take the pressure off of me, who was having to serve as a Release Engineer as well as a Principal Software Engineer. I cut him a break and it turned out he knew jack shit about Perforce, his knowledge of which was a major factor in hiring him. Instead I ended up having to hold his hand constantly over the most mundane of tasks. It was extremely frustrating.
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#9 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 18 January 2011 - 08:46 AM

@Nikhil, you know what's funny? I had guessed all that before, and even stated it, without direct personal knowledge. It's just so easy to tell from the way people post that they could not care any less about what they're doing other than getting a solution so they can get a paycheck/degree.

It annoys me that some people care so much, and learn so much, and will forever be "hobbyists", while these "professionals" make a decent wage and churn out the most horrible code imaginable.

It used to annoy me that they were in the field at all, but someone pointed out to me that you don't have to love accounting to be a good accountant. I guess the same could be true about CS.

But as I stated in my post here, I feel that when I help these types of people, I'm just screwing myself in the end. That's why I don't bother much with posts from these people. I know they're just trying to do their jobs, but they shouldn't have gotten those jobs in the first place if they don't care enough to learn how to do it.

Edit: And I don't think this is limited to just India; I think they're the worst offender simply because of sheer volume. Any "developing nation" is going to have issues like this. It's a popular, relatively well-paying job. Who cares if you like it? Just do it to make more money than you could doing pretty much anything else in your skillset.

This post has been edited by insertAlias: 18 January 2011 - 08:48 AM

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#10 chinchang  Icon User is offline

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Re: What's Wrong With CS In India

Posted 07 February 2011 - 04:01 AM

View PostKYA, on 15 January 2011 - 06:48 PM, said:

I found this link via twitter this morning and is an interesting follow on/up to the discussion going on in here and here.

To briefly summarize the post, the author lists three reasons why CS is on the wrong track in India:

  • Underestimating quality
  • Lack of passion
  • Lack of proper design


edited: It briefly touches on antiquated tools/academia/curricula that led to what is currently in their marketplace/industry today.


Which begs the question, is this because the post was intentionally targeted as a follow up to the initial link in the article or is it a case of "out of sight, out of mind"? Focusing on what currently exists without going too far in depth on the conditions that precipitated the condition seems disingenuous.


I would consider the 2nd point (Lack of passion) as the biggest reason. I have hardly found anyone here who has a dream of doing something big in the field of CS. No one thinks ahead of getting good marks in engineering and getting a job. That all they learn CS for :| The usual crap syllabus is all we are taught.

I have been looking for game developers to team up with for last 3-4 years and still the search is on. Either there is lack of passion or lack of knowledge. It really gets frustrating sometimes to keep working alone and not finding someone to collaborate with :(

Anyways, I can only hope that the situation gets better with time.
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