[absynthe]

The Story

This is tragic. The girl was so pretty and absolutely fearless. She was stomped and kicked in the chest.





In my opinion a child doesn't have the mindset to realize their own mortality the way an adult can. I know at sixteen I felt untouchable by death. I did SO many dangerous things that could have easily resulted in me getting killed, especially while under the wheel. I think it's that way with just about all teenagers (maybe not the emos). I think that is where parents step in.

I am kind of torn with this though. I know I fell in love with rock climbing at an early age and that's pretty dangerous. I didn't need waivers signed to do it though but if I had I would have expected to been able to. It's kind of like the 16 year old that was in the sailing accident when she attempted to sail around the world by herself. Her parents were criticized to no end. But bullriding is a little more dangerous to me though. I mean just look at the short little video that shows the girl riding, look how close she came to dying in that!

SO...what do you think?
Do you think it's smart for parents to let their kids participate in sports(for instance) that are so dangerous you have to "sign a waver" releasing responsibility of injury or death? Do you think it's good parenting or shitty parenting?

This post has been edited by absynthe: 21 February 2011 - 08:07 AM

[modi123_1]

Any average inter-mural sport requires a waiver now a days. Be it baseball, wrestling, football, or volleyball. Sports have an inherent risk of danger - especially one was objectively cruel as bull-riding - so where does one draw the line? God knows how many video clips I have seen on ESPN or 'when animals attack' shows of bullriders getting the ever living crude pounded out of them by hooves, horns, and teeth.

It's not an issue of good or bad parenting, it's an issue of messing with the bull you should expect to get the horns.

This post has been edited by modi123_1: 21 February 2011 - 08:19 AM

[raziel_]

absynthe, on 21 February 2011 - 05:03 PM, said:

In my opinion a child doesn't have the mindset to realize their own mortality the way an adult can.

In my opinion some of the adults cant realize their own mortality let alone a child.

[modi123_1]

Oh, and throwing this one out there - I would have poured myself into a new pair of Wranglers, and shined my largest belt buckle for that girl (when she hit 18). She was a looker.

[Craig328]

I've never fully understood the mindset that risking one's life qualified as entertainment or a hobby. I get that there's a rush when whatever it is you did DIDN'T result in death or maiming or whatever...but I've always looked at people like that and wondered how little they had in the rest of their life such that risking it all for a momentary thrill made it worthwhile.

In this case, you have a 16 year old girl. No offense to 16 year old girls everywhere but she had no idea of what she was risking in order to experience the thrill of riding on top of 2 tons of armed, pissed off bull. I chalk this up to an utter failure in parenting. I get that she may or may not have been encouraged to participate in this by (most likely) her father...but someone in her immediate gene pool should have had the sense to say "hey, what about if the worst happens...will this all seem worth it then?". How do you think dad feels today now that he doesn't have his little girl anymore? You have to ask the parents "what, that never occurred to you?".

There's a reason there is an age where you're allowed to make decisions for yourself and that 16 ain't it (for the most part). Unfortunately, the laws tend to assume that those whose care such 16 year olds are entrusted to are more mature and can make better decisions.

You can get killed doing all kinds of ordinary daily things. But sitting on a mountain of angry cow, throwing oneself off a bridge where your mortality is ensured by a pair of fancy rubber bands, or diving out of a perfectly good airplane goes beyond and simply taunts fate.

[absynthe]

Awesome! Craig you continue to impress the hell out of me with each and every post I've read from you. SO intelligent!

I agree, it's become so much more popular in the last few years too! It's like we've reverted back to the times of the Romans and Gladiator sport. I honestly believe if there was a way to get by with it the Arena would become nightly entertainment again. People today LOVE being entertained by seeing anything to do with this type of risk. Think of all the shows that have continued to pull huge ratings on all the networks, including the Science channel. From UFC to these stupid cop shows that always show the same car (it seems) flipping and rolling into oncoming traffic before being smashed to bits by a semi. People get off on the shit. And to me that's what it is..shit.

Alot of my friends love to see it too. Some of them have begged me to watch beheadings online, I cant..I just don't see how stuff like that can make your life any better by watching it. It's the same with all these shows, they just dont benefit me. I guess it's been going on since the dawn of time and maybe it's something instilled in us. But I think it's dangerous force feeding children such rampant violence. Video games are bad enough anymore, but this type of entertainment is all over the television. I think it causes a disconnect in young brains that are still developing. They lose the shock of seeing violent acts, it becomes a normal thing to them.

TV is shit. God I could go on about that one. That's another post and another morning

Back to topic though. It's such a shame and it could have been prevented. When I first read this story I guessed it would have came out of Tennessee, Kentucky, Texas or some other state where BullRiding is as popular a cheerleading perhaps. This came out of Tampa!

I cant imagine how the parents must feel right now. I'm sure they loved their daughter and bear the responsibility of this. Their lives ended with hers, at least it would be that way for most.

[Craig328]

Being from Tampa, I still tend to skim the local news from there and ran across this story after I'd posted here.

To illustrate what I said earlier:

Quote

Rodeo regular Erik Schmitz said Coats was injured during an exhibition ride, an event that uses smaller bulls and is for less-skilled riders...

Schmitz said his 15-year-old son also rides bulls and knew Coats. He's still willing to let his boy take the risk of bull riding.

"As a parent, I know there's an inherent risk any time you get into an extreme sport," he said. "And this is one of the most dangerous."

Even witnessing the tragedy first hand, he's still cool with his own son riding bulls. As a parent, you tell the kid "hell no" when he wants to get in an extreme sport. It doesn't take a parent to recognize the inherent risk...it takes a parent to say "not til you're older and can make such decisions on your own".

Parenting fail count is now up to 2 on this topic.

[modi123_1]

I disagree with both of you.

"Road to the Rome Arena is littered with broken bones and TV"
- Not quite. Let's not over react on the slippery slope argument, and also let's not rope in (oh - rodeo pun!) passive actions of soaking of 'Worlds Wildest Police Chases 1-169' and extreme sports. Sure a large number of people enjoy passively watching these glimpets and clips... just like SportsCenter likes to show the million crashes from NASCAR yesterday afternoon. People enjoy the violence and the worst case scenarios. There's no particular link to that or sports that have pre-dated those shows or clips.

Where's the age line drawn? Is mutton busting okay for a seven year old? What about the countless numbers of kids who are *not* injured? Is one accidental death enough to shut down the activity and stone the parents?

http://www.njbranow.org/

Was this girl operating on her own free will or were her parents shoving hard at her to join? I know let's deincentivize the activity and remove trophies or awards! No glittering award for the shelf = no reason to be there.

How about we expand the ban to all "extreme" sports. Are the X-Games (Summer and Winter) on the chopping block? Those are some damn young kids. How about high school baseball? Those damn aluminum bats do claim lives every year.

"never fully understood the mindset that risking one's life qualified as entertainment or a hobby"
- That is your right or choice, but you do not speak for those who engage in that activity. Skydiving, bungie jump, rock climbing, hell wilderness hiking, all carry a risk and death has occurred in all. Just because you "don't get it" does that allow you to sit on your horse wagging a finger at the parents? I would say no.

What's the line for acceptable risk activities? I am curious. What activities make the cut, and what don't?

[absynthe]

Do you not see the difference in Bull Riding and Baseball? I just want to be clear that I'm not being smart ass with that question but I just wonder if you see how MUCH more blatantly dangerous the sport of BullRiding is then Baseball. Granted there's been deaths in baseball but these two sports are worlds apart in the inherent danger in the activity.

This post has been edited by absynthe: 21 February 2011 - 10:45 AM

[Craig328]

I thought I was pretty clear about the age issue vis-a-vis participating in "extreme" sports. Where is the line drawn? For me, the line needs no re-drawing. I've not suggested these activities need to be banned. I am suggesting that the parenting going on in relation to the thread's subject was less than stellar.

As for what I get and don't get...you're kind of off on a tangent there. I was clearly expressing a personal opinion. I get that some people get off defying death and/or crippling injuries and I was not attempting to speak for any who engage in such activity. As for: "Just because you "don't get it" does that allow you to sit on your horse wagging a finger at the parents?", the answer is: yes, it does because while they have a right to determine that their minor daughter riding a raging bull is "a-ok" I believe that might be enough prompting to wonder "what other stellar decisions have they made recently"?

As for "What's the line for acceptable risk activities?" I'll respond with something we've ALL seen on television at some point or another. Group of "extreme" hikers decide to be "extreme" and hike a mountain well into off-season when it's patently unsafe to do so. Maybe they decide to take skis and ski down a clearly unsafe mountain. Maybe they decide to ignore the heavy surf warning and go surf humongous "extreme" waves for the thrill...and then they get injured. Guess what: there are EMT personnel whose job it is to go rescue idiots like that and often they have to risk THEIR lives to do it. They typically don't have an option to say "fuck it...let the morons freeze/starve/drown/bleed out...I'm not risking my neck to save theirs". I remember reading a story years back in Tampa about some kid who tried to do some wrestling move that involved jumping off the roof of a house onto another kid on a folding table. Everyone got hurt all around...and nobody had health insurance...so the community at large picked up the tab for that idiocy. I recall the story not because of the original incident but because he went back and did it again some time later and the second story reprised the first one.

[modi123_1]

Yeah I consider both to be equally risky.

Quote

An average of 20 people per year are killed in horse related accidents, and 3 people are killed by Bulls.

http://historylist.w...sed-by-animals/

Quote

Between 1991 and 2001, 17 players were killed by batted balls,

http://www.nytimes.c...=1&pagewanted=2

Quote

- 16-year-old Gunnar Sandberg -- was hit in the head by a line drive during a game last week.
They cut his skull open to allow the brain to swell,” explained the concerned parent. “It improved his condition and put him in an induced coma and that's where it is right now."

http://www.ktvu.com/...726/detail.html

Quote

Georgia teen dies after collision at first base during baseball game in Jacksonville

http://jacksonville....th-jacksonville

Quote

A 9-year old Jersey boy died after being hit with a baseball.
Eliyahu Dabbah was out in the backyard, playing ball with his 10-year old brother Saturday. His brother hit the ball that struck Eliyahu in the neck.

http://www.nbcphilad...-Being-Hit-by-B

[xclite]

Those stats actually put bull-related deaths as occurring nearly twice as often as baseball related deaths. They also don't account for injuries.

Also, how many more baseball games are played than rodeos occur? How many more or fewer people are around the high speed baseball than around a rampaging bull?

This post has been edited by xclite: 21 February 2011 - 12:02 PM

[modi123_1]

I could continue finding baseball related death stories from last year but it was becoming a bit macabre. The point is still showing baseball can meet the three deaths per year "pound of flesh" that bullriding puts up.

[raziel_]

I cant believe that someone can put the baseball and bull riding in one and the same category. To begin with the one sport uses animals witch are creatures that dont think (sorry animal guys they dont) and the other are peoples that well do think. I do agree that they are both dangerous sport but the reason that bull riding is not practice by children its obvious in the baseball there are no animals involved(2 tons weighting aggressive animal that is).

[xclite]

The point isn't made - first, the stats you posted clearly show that baseball has fewer deaths per year, and that's without even considering that baseball is a much more popular sport, with more participants and contests. Your point is disproven by simple division before you even get to the inability to statistically relate the two.