Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

  • (11 Pages)
  • +
  • « First
  • 9
  • 10
  • 11

163 Replies - 23035 Views - Last Post: 14 June 2014 - 04:27 PM

Poll: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners (189 member(s) have cast votes)

Best language for beginners?

  1. C++ (22 votes [11.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.64%

  2. C (19 votes [10.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.05%

  3. Pascal (2 votes [1.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.06%

  4. Java (24 votes [12.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.70%

  5. VB (21 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  6. C# (39 votes [20.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.63%

  7. HTML (9 votes [4.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

  8. Python (39 votes [20.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.63%

  9. Assembly (3 votes [1.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.59%

  10. Other (11 votes [5.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.82%

Language you started out with?

  1. C (22 votes [11.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.64%

  2. C++ (34 votes [17.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.99%

  3. Pascal (2 votes [1.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.06%

  4. Java (23 votes [12.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.17%

  5. VB (31 votes [16.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.40%

  6. C# (15 votes [7.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.94%

  7. HTML (10 votes [5.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.29%

  8. Python (6 votes [3.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.17%

  9. Assembly (5 votes [2.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.65%

  10. DOS (1 votes [0.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.53%

  11. HTML (4 votes [2.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.12%

  12. PHP (5 votes [2.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.65%

  13. Qbasic (15 votes [7.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.94%

  14. COBOL (1 votes [0.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.53%

  15. Fortran (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  16. Delphi (1 votes [0.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.53%

  17. Other (14 votes [7.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.41%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#151 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

  • Fire giant boob nipple gun!
  • member icon

Reputation: 3316
  • View blog
  • Posts: 11,188
  • Joined: 12-December 12

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 03:25 PM

I've wondered on occasion whether a lot of IT/CS teachers have been persuaded to teach this as a secondary subject? If there is a shortage of IT teachers then, if someone is spotted turning on a computer and using a mouse, the Head might say: "You're obviously an expert - you should run our IT class". Particularly for lower age-range classes.

Presumably they might not have the enthusiasm, or time, to keep their skills up-to-date.

Perhaps I'm completely wrong? I'm not in a position to tell.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#152 ConciselyVerbose  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Regular

Reputation: 90
  • View blog
  • Posts: 315
  • Joined: 05-July 13

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:14 PM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 05 July 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Sorry to say it, but the problem there is with the programmer, not the language. Java allows mess, but you should never allow mess. Formatting your Java code by hand is a great way to train yourself to think about the structure of your code.

And you should never put stuff in to make your IDE happy. If you don't know why you're putting that bracket there, it's time to stop and learn the language. Then you can go write your program.


Learning Java well will make you a better python programmer. Just learning to keep your IDE happy will never make you happy.


I don't disagree at all. If my code is ugly I'm not happy with it. I just have found from the people I have helped, that being forced to use white space correctly generally means they have a better understanding of the flow when I discuss it with them. I am far from an expert and don't have experience with a lot of the libraries and capabilities in either language, but in what I do know and use, I am a perfectionist. It must be perfectly formatted, and my java code generally looks like my python code with the exception of brackets, semicolons, and other language specific differences.

This was solely my observation of others. I can do my best to explain why white space matters, but unless it is enforced by the language I find myself wasting too much time talking to a wall.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#153 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

  • Pancakes!
  • member icon


Reputation: 7621
  • View blog
  • Posts: 12,848
  • Joined: 19-March 11

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

I can do my best to explain why white space matters, but unless it is enforced by the language I find myself wasting too much time talking to a wall.


This student is not one that is worth teaching. They won't learn python or anything else from you. Cast them from your sight and let them take up marketing or some damn thing.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#154 ConciselyVerbose  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Regular

Reputation: 90
  • View blog
  • Posts: 315
  • Joined: 05-July 13

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostRyano121, on 05 July 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

In Eclipse Ctrl+Shift+F = job done. it's a shame that more beginners don't know about it.


A lot of the time with certain people this is the first thing I do before I look at their code.

View PostMartyr2, on 05 July 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Have you ever noticed how many newbies come here claiming that their teachers don't give a damn? How many teachers did you run into that seriously didn't give a damn? I can only count a few. The truth is many of the students who say that are those who didn't give a damn to listen and follow instruction. And of those students who listen, they rarely put together crappy indentation and churn out crap code. Most teaching I have seen too also instructs students code cleanliness from the start.

I remember the days where I wrote some wicked code and still got knocked down a peg for formatting.

:)/>



I can tell you, I am far stricter than my teacher. She does a decent job providing optional assignments for me to do as opposed to others in the class, but with other students she lets a lot of awful practices get through (I know because I am on good terms with many in the class, help them with things they get stuck on, and in many cases see both the final code and their grade. My teacher also is OK with this, presumably because it's less work for her.) and does not penalize very strongly for it. It gets to the point where I have simply not done many simple assignments because I get irritated with the fact that quality has no impact on grade. Anyways, the point of this paragraph (mini rant?) is that some good students do end up with teachers who may not be the best choice to mentor them properly. It's a decision I should probably have made differently, but there are other factors that mitigate this negative impact, and I also had not decided on counter science when selecting my school of choice.

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 05 July 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

I can do my best to explain why white space matters, but unless it is enforced by the language I find myself wasting too much time talking to a wall.


This student is not one that is worth teaching. They won't learn python or anything else from you. Cast them from your sight and let them take up marketing or some damn thing.


The person I am referring to is a good friend who has no intention of actually doing a job requiring coding. Is it the most efficient use of my time? Likely not, but she is not someone I am willing to throw to the wolves, for better or worse.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#155 modi123_1  Icon User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 9044
  • View blog
  • Posts: 33,951
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

A few things to mention in passing...

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

...
I am far from an expert and don't have experience with a lot of the libraries and capabilities in either language, but in what I do know and use, I am a perfectionist. It must be perfectly formatted,
...

You must be peach in class and will make friends quickly in the work place. A word from the wise - lighten up a bit or you'll find yourself formatting coworker's code for hours before you can tackle a bug fix, add documentation, or make an enhancement.

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

...
I can tell you, I am far stricter than my teacher. She does a decent job providing optional assignments for me to do as opposed to others in the class, but with other students she lets a lot of awful practices get through (I know because I am on good terms with many in the class, help them with things they get stuck on, and in many cases see both the final code and their grade. My teacher also is OK with this, presumably because it's less work for her.) and does not penalize very strongly for it.

Again - lighten up a bit. It sounds like someone is irked because their 'perfectionist' code is getting graded the same as the slovenly unwashed masses with ill formatted code.

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

It gets to the point where I have simply not done many simple assignments because I get irritated with the fact that quality has no impact on grade.

This sort of protest is probably not a wise career move.

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

The person I am referring to is a good friend who has no intention of actually doing a job requiring coding. Is it the most efficient use of my time? Likely not, but she is not someone I am willing to throw to the wolves, for better or worse.

Ah.. got it. Classic damsel in distress homework help. ;)
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#156 ConciselyVerbose  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Regular

Reputation: 90
  • View blog
  • Posts: 315
  • Joined: 05-July 13

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:11 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 05 July 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

A few things to mention in passing...

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

...
I am far from an expert and don't have experience with a lot of the libraries and capabilities in either language, but in what I do know and use, I am a perfectionist. It must be perfectly formatted,
...

You must be peach in class and will make friends quickly in the work place. A word from the wise - lighten up a bit or you'll find yourself formatting coworker's code for hours before you can tackle a bug fix, add documentation, or make an enhancement.


With others I let them do their work. My code comes out as clean as possible from the start, so cleaning it up is not particularly an issue.

Quote

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

...
I can tell you, I am far stricter than my teacher. She does a decent job providing optional assignments for me to do as opposed to others in the class, but with other students she lets a lot of awful practices get through (I know because I am on good terms with many in the class, help them with things they get stuck on, and in many cases see both the final code and their grade. My teacher also is OK with this, presumably because it's less work for her.) and does not penalize very strongly for it.

Again - lighten up a bit. It sounds like someone is irked because their 'perfectionist' code is getting graded the same as the slovenly unwashed masses with ill formatted code.

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

It gets to the point where I have simply not done many simple assignments because I get irritated with the fact that quality has no impact on grade.

This sort of protest is probably not a wise career move.


I oversimplified my reasoning. I have other things to do in many cases, both in terms of larger projects that are more educational than the over simplified things generally assigned and extracurricular activities, and if there is no/minimal reward for doing things and doing them right, I will work on something I feel is a better use of my time.

Quote

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

The person I am referring to is a good friend who has no intention of actually doing a job requiring coding. Is it the most efficient use of my time? Likely not, but she is not someone I am willing to throw to the wolves, for better or worse.

Ah.. got it. Classic damsel in distress homework help. ;)/>


Make of it what you will lol. I won't deny I've done my share of tutoring math for those types of reasons, but in this case our relationship isn't like that. She helps pressure me to do my work when it's too boring and simple.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#157 modi123_1  Icon User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 9044
  • View blog
  • Posts: 33,951
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

... snip ...

View Postmodi123_1, on 05 July 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

It gets to the point where I have simply not done many simple assignments because I get irritated with the fact that quality has no impact on grade.

This sort of protest is probably not a wise career move.


I oversimplified my reasoning. I have other things to do in many cases, both in terms of larger projects that are more educational than the over simplified things generally assigned and extracurricular activities, and if there is no/minimal reward for doing things and doing them right, I will work on something I feel is a better use of my time.


Again - so you refuse to do these simple assignments because they are... beneath you? Riiiiiiiight. :rolleyes2:


View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

Quote

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

The person I am referring to is a good friend who has no intention of actually doing a job requiring coding. Is it the most efficient use of my time? Likely not, but she is not someone I am willing to throw to the wolves, for better or worse.

Ah.. got it. Classic damsel in distress homework help. ;)/>/>/>/>


Make of it what you will lol. I won't deny I've done my share of tutoring math for those types of reasons, but in this case our relationship isn't like that. She helps pressure me to do my work when it's too boring and simple.

You can slap as much lipstick on that pig and tell me it's not a pig, but as gabehabe has mentioned bewbies are a good motivator.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#158 ConciselyVerbose  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Regular

Reputation: 90
  • View blog
  • Posts: 315
  • Joined: 05-July 13

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:46 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 05 July 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

... snip ...

View Postmodi123_1, on 05 July 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

It gets to the point where I have simply not done many simple assignments because I get irritated with the fact that quality has no impact on grade.

This sort of protest is probably not a wise career move.


I oversimplified my reasoning. I have other things to do in many cases, both in terms of larger projects that are more educational than the over simplified things generally assigned and extracurricular activities, and if there is no/minimal reward for doing things and doing them right, I will work on something I feel is a better use of my time.


Again - so you refuse to do these simple assignments because they are... beneath you? Riiiiiiiight. :rolleyes2:/>


You don't understand the simplicity of the assignments I'm referring to, but what it comes down to is I don't have 30 hours in a day. I have personal projects that are more intriguing to me and stretch myself further than the assigned ones, am involved in other on campus groups and have responsibilities for those, I help several other students in classes, I have social obligations, and I honestly don't see a huge difference between a 3.0 or a 4.0 on my piece of paper. Judge me for it if you please; I am paying to be there and will get what I desire out of it, and in the real world, will be paid to do everything requested, so as such, I will do so.

Quote

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

Quote

View PostConciselyVerbose, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

The person I am referring to is a good friend who has no intention of actually doing a job requiring coding. Is it the most efficient use of my time? Likely not, but she is not someone I am willing to throw to the wolves, for better or worse.

Ah.. got it. Classic damsel in distress homework help. ;)/>/>/>/>/>


Make of it what you will lol. I won't deny I've done my share of tutoring math for those types of reasons, but in this case our relationship isn't like that. She helps pressure me to do my work when it's too boring and simple.

You can slap as much lipstick on that pig and tell me it's not a pig, but as gabehabe has mentioned bewbies are a good motivator.


Indeed. I openly admitted I have done so for those reasons. It's hard to say no to an attractive female with the right look in her eyes asking for help. This isn't that though lol.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#159 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

  • Pancakes!
  • member icon


Reputation: 7621
  • View blog
  • Posts: 12,848
  • Joined: 19-March 11

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:53 PM

Psst. What is doing is called "pulling your chain". Ignore him a little, he'll find someone else to bother.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#160 ConciselyVerbose  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Regular

Reputation: 90
  • View blog
  • Posts: 315
  • Joined: 05-July 13

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

I'm bored lol. I have nothing better to do at the moment but see where the conversation takes me.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#161 modi123_1  Icon User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 9044
  • View blog
  • Posts: 33,951
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

Pffst.. I am just worming my way to declaring rule 31.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#162 ConciselyVerbose  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Regular

Reputation: 90
  • View blog
  • Posts: 315
  • Joined: 05-July 13

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:59 PM

Can't help you there with anything you couldn't google yourself.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#163 salazar  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Addict

Reputation: 87
  • View blog
  • Posts: 539
  • Joined: 26-June 13

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:13 PM

Mine was html. I didn't really have anyone around me that could really formally introduce me to any of the so call 'real' programming languages. Html is the most accessable and widespreas because it is the basic structure from which a simple webpage is built. Owing to destiny, one night I decided to peek at the what I know no to be the source code, or just source for short. I was dazzeled and intrigued by the what seem like endless lines of inscrutable text. I quickly learned the simple language. Later on I decided on wanted to challenge myself and enter into the world of low-level programming (php, C/C++, etc.). I actually do not regret starting out with html. I think it is good for getting use to the programming environment, for someone one may feel uncomfortable typing endless lines of code. One should think of it as a modern logo.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#164 JMRKER  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Addict

Reputation: 128
  • View blog
  • Posts: 826
  • Joined: 25-October 08

Re: Your Opinion On The Best Language For Beginners

Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:27 PM

For the absolute beginner to learn programming concepts
and get immediate feedback,
it's hard to beat "Logo", if you can find it.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

  • (11 Pages)
  • +
  • « First
  • 9
  • 10
  • 11