[Ruba Mushtaq]

In my views,C language is the best for beginners.It is easy in syntax ,freindly environment and i pondrer before jumping into software languages C language is must to have concept regarding to software languages.
My First language was also C that's why i would recommend it for beginners.

[codeprada]

i've never coded in python...maybe because i checked online for the most popular and best language to code on windows and it was c++ so hence i jumped straight into it after my VB saga. it's either C# or Python as a beginner language from what you guys are saying

Ruba Mushtaq, on 09 March 2011 - 03:37 PM, said:

In my views,C language is the best for beginners.It is easy in syntax ,freindly environment and i pondrer before jumping into software languages C language is must to have concept regarding to software languages.
My First language was also C that's why i would recommend it for beginners.

C for beginners is like giving a 5 year old a fully loaded pistol. they're gonna kill themselves. C doesn't enforce strict management like other languages like for instance reading past your array boundaries

NeoTifa, on 09 March 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

I think Java is a pretty cool guy. tI has built in graphics and doesn't afraid of anything.

In all seriousness, I think Java balances the aspcts of top level and low level just right for beginners. It takes most of the low level functionality away (or at least covers it up) so it makes it easier to ease n00bs into programming, but at the same time forces OOP concepts, libraries, and just enough low levelness to get them introduced to how a computer works under the hood. This is opposed to VB or some gay shit that is too high level, or C which is too low level.

i dropped Java after i left my Abstract Data class. the everything in a class method of coding gets annoying and it was difficult to distribute since you either had a .jar file or a .class file and they both needed the jdk to run. don't talk about the little things that are very wierd. the fact that the class had to have the same name as the file itself gets to me.

[Curtis Rutland]

Quote

I think Ruby moves to fast for a newbie. It's the equivalent of building your foundations on sand.

I very much agree with this. Languages like Ruby and Python are quite easy to get things done in, but they don't really fit an "intro to programming" paradigm. They're not structured enough; they are more for people that already understand the universal logic behind programming. A more structured language like Java or C# or VB.NET or even C++ would be a better place to start. You're learning how to program, not how to write beautiful code. Ruby can have some amazingly pretty code, but it's not really beginner oriented.

[Curtis Rutland]

Quote

C language is the best for beginners.It is easy in syntax ,freindly environment

Are you serious? Yeah, manual memory management is a real "friendly environment". Pointers are a hell of a concept that makes for some really ugly syntax. Starting with C is asking for trouble, in my opinion. Start out a bit simpler. Don't make people think about pointers at first. Get them working with code that does what they want without having to think about memory management. Then work those concepts in to the language they're learning, then move on to C.

[Patrunjel]

insertAlias, on 09 March 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

Quote

C language is the best for beginners.It is easy in syntax ,freindly environment

Are you serious? Yeah, manual memory management is a real "friendly environment". Pointers are a hell of a concept that makes for some really ugly syntax. Starting with C is asking for trouble, in my opinion. Start out a bit simpler. Don't make people think about pointers at first. Get them working with code that does what they want without having to think about memory management. Then work those concepts in to the language they're learning, then move on to C.

You're right, but after smacking your head to the monitor/keyboard, screaming, swearing, smashing the mouse on the desk and saying mean words to the computer (like it was his fault, lol... ) the satisfaction of making the certain thing work is uncomparable (in the good way )...it just makes you think "Ok, so you think you're tough, huh? Come on, programming language, show me what you got ! "
Long story short, the feeling (and the sensation of exhaustion ) after climbing a 10 meter hill doesn't even come close to what you feel after you climb Everest.

This post has been edited by Patrunjel: 09 March 2011 - 01:11 PM

[xclite]

Right, but you don't climb Everest for your first mountain.

[codeprada]

Patrunjel, on 09 March 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:

You're right, but after smacking your head to the monitor/keyboard, screaming, swearing, smashing the mouse on the desk and saying mean words to the computer (like it was his fault, lol... ) the feeling of making the certain thing work is uncomparable (in the good way )...it just makes you think "Ok, so you think you're tough, huh? Come on, programming language, show me what you got ! " and " YOU KNOW WHAT?! YOUR MOTHER IS A ...preety nice woman, she gives me cookies and she's hot too....BUT I STILL HATE YOU ! " .
Long story short, the feeling (and the sensation of exhaustion ) after climbing a 10 meter hill doesn't even come close to what you feel after you climb Everest.

you can't build a house starting with the roof. the reason why some people won't get topics like pointers and references before they literally try to hang themselves is because they're skipped something along the way. honestly at first i was like wow check out that code i wanna write it too. i jumped into pointers and classes (you know advance stuff)cuz i thought hey i wrote a bank program for class why not (just writing and reading from text files programming) ....i stopped c++ for a few months. i then decided to start back up after i got a c++ book.

[raziel_]

Sergio Tapia, on 09 March 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

NoBrain, on 09 March 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

I would say VB its easier then C like syntax because no ; at the end etc other things that makes it more english like typing example:

'VB'
For i As Integer = 0 To 10
'Do some stuff'
Next i

If you have none programming understanding the VB syntax will help you get the basics (after all its visual basic) pretty much fast and easy. Even if that i start programming on Pascal i still hate Begin End block type of thing. My opinion though

The problem I have with this is you're instantly putting your brain in a vice that's very difficult to be free of. Once you use VB.Net, your mind is permanently branded. You'll forget to use semicolons in other languages (which lets face it, most languages use!), you'll have problems declaring variables, and more.

I don't recommend this language as a start language.

Thats absolutely not true. the semicolons are the last thing you can put as argument against vb.

Quote

you'll have problems declaring variables

And how so because you put integer in front and remove dim?
The only thing that i can think as argument against VB is that the cast is handled by the compiler and this gives bad habit when you use C/C++/C#. Thats all dont even get me started how VB.NET is better then C#. FFS VB.NET have optional byref parameters(i cant believe that till VS 2010 C# dont even have optional parameters). And you can do almost everything in C# that you can do in VB.NET almost
EDIT:
On other hand C# have pointers using unsafe regions so you can do almost everything in VB.NET that you can do in C#

This post has been edited by NoBrain: 09 March 2011 - 01:21 PM

[5thWall]

Quote

I think Ruby moves to fast for a newbie. It's the equivalent of building your foundations on sand.

What do you mean by "moves to fast"? Are you talking about changes in the language or something like the way the code feels, like it moves through concepts too quickly when you're trying to get something done?

insertAlias, on 09 March 2011 - 12:43 PM, said:

They're not structured enough; they are more for people that already understand the universal logic behind programming. A more structured language like Java or C# or VB.NET or even C++ would be a better place to start.

insertAlias, on 09 March 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

Yeah, manual memory management is a real "friendly environment". Pointers are a hell of a concept that makes for some really ugly syntax. Starting with C is asking for trouble, in my opinion. Start out a bit simpler. Don't make people think about pointers at first. Get them working with code that does what they want without having to think about memory management.

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but it seems you're taking the position that a "middle of the road" language would be best for beginners because it isn't so high level that it abstracts away the structure of the program, and it isn't so low level that it bogs newbies down with too many things to think about. It's a valid position, but I disagree with it.

Quote

You're learning how to program, not how to write beautiful code. Ruby can have some amazingly pretty code, but it's not really beginner oriented.

My position would be that there's a difference between "learning to program" and "learning how to write code". I know from my own experience, learning the structure of a program was never difficult, but until I learned how to solve a problem with code, I was stuck. Languages like Ruby (and Python) let you focus on problem solving without having to deal with too much other cruft. The more structured languages make you divide your attention between "writing code" and "solving problems".

And it's not like Ruby has no structure, I think it has enough that someone can get that a program needs structure. Newbies can learn more structure when they start learning another language and they've got the problem solving part better under control.

[Curtis Rutland]

Quote

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but it seems you're taking the position that a "middle of the road" language would be best for beginners because it isn't so high level that it abstracts away the structure of the program, and it isn't so low level that it bogs newbies down with too many things to think about. It's a valid position, but I disagree with it.

That's exactly the position I'm taking; glad you pointed it out. Though, honestly, it depends on the type of person you're trying to teach. Most people I know would get frustrated with C on the first day, throw up their hands, and quit. If I started them on C# instead, they might make it further, to the point where they're actually open and receptive to the concepts required to learn C. So obfuscate some of the more difficult concepts with a language that lets you do those things, but also lets you not do those things. That way, later, you can point those things out, and you can prepare them to move to a language where you have to do them.

But also, people do need a structured learning environment, in my opinion. My time I've spent with Python has been really neat, but I know if I had started there, I'd have had trouble working in a more strict setting. I think there's a reason that many universities use Java or C# for their intro classes. They're easy to grasp basic concepts, great for teaching OOP principles, and structured enough to provide a basic framework for every program they're going to create.

From there, you can go either way. If you want to go more in depth, low level, you can do that. If you want to go more dynamic, free-format programming, you can do that too.

One of the reasons I like .NET for that is you can go either way without leaving the framework. Start with C# or VB.NET. Once you've got the basics down, you could go to VC++.NET, or you could go to a more dynamic language like IronPython/IronRuby, or you could go functional with F#.

Quote

Languages like Ruby (and Python) let you focus on problem solving without having to deal with too much other cruft.

Which is why I like using them now. I guess we just disagree about priorities. Honorable men can differ.

[raziel_]

NeoTifa, on 09 March 2011 - 08:01 PM, said:

I think Java is a pretty cool guy. tI has built in graphics and doesn't afraid of anything.

In all seriousness, I think Java balances the aspcts of top level and low level just right for beginners. It takes most of the low level functionality away (or at least covers it up) so it makes it easier to ease n00bs into programming, but at the same time forces OOP concepts, libraries, and just enough low levelness to get them introduced to how a computer works under the hood. This is opposed to VB or some gay shit that is too high level, or C which is too low level.

Lol neo you do hate VB dont you. Maybe Sub stress you out. Dont forget you used VBA witch is different from VB6 or VB.NET. Oh well its like ugly child you just live with it

[lordofduct]

VB just bores me, that's my only problem with it. It's so boring to look at.


Which I know sounds so dumb... that's like saying I don't like Chevy motors because they taste like cheese.

[Sergio Tapia]

5thWall, on 09 March 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

Quote

I think Ruby moves too fast for a newbie. It's the equivalent of building your foundations on sand.

What do you mean by "moves to fast"? Are you talking about changes in the language or something like the way the code feels, like it moves through concepts too quickly when you're trying to get something done?

The language itself has changes occurring at a very rapid pace. Rails also evolves very quickly, almost to the point of making information in books deprecated as soon as it's published.

LOL. Guys...who voted for HTML? *bad programmers, bad*

[raziel_]

lordofduct, on 09 March 2011 - 10:54 PM, said:

VB just bores me, that's my only problem with it. It's so boring to look at.


Which I know sounds so dumb... that's like saying I don't like Chevy motors because they taste like cheese.

I personally like best C++ (i dont try ruby or python) because you can do everything. I did try java but when i find the best compiler for it is notpad (totally hate eclipse in the effort to have everything they totally mess up with it and i did try Netbeans but i did not like it). And for me the compiler is the most important for quick and efficient development.

[PudgeCo]

I started out my programming in high school on VB6, from there I went into college learning VB.NET, JAVA, and C++, etc... I say etc. because I'm not going to bother listing the rest as they are not relevant to the topic at hand *cough HTML cough*

Personally, I'd avoid starting out with VB.NET. As I've seen it mentioned several times in this post, it does half of the coding for you with the visualized tools.

C++ or Java would be my first choice if I could learn from scratch again, likely starting with C++ since that's really where the idea behind Java started anyway.