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#1 ishkabible  Icon User is offline

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good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 22 March 2011 - 07:31 PM

so i have seen a lot on practical common lisp but i would like some second opinions first. basically im looking for a book recommendation for learning common lisp.
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#2 Raynes  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 23 March 2011 - 05:04 AM

Check out Land of Lisp. Haven't read it myself, but it's supposedly an amazing book and judging by what I've seen of it, I'd probably agree.
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#3 ishkabible  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 23 March 2011 - 11:31 AM

nice pick!! it looks really nice, and it's $20 cheaper than practical common lisp. i like this a lot :)
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#4 xTorvos  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 25 March 2011 - 07:32 AM

I know you mentioned this in your original post, but I figured I would leave a link here for anyone who happens to surf across this thread:

Practical Common Lisp

This is a pretty neat book and it's free online. Enjoy!
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#5 ishkabible  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:26 PM

i just got land of lisp today. it's amazingly well written too!! thanks Raynes!!
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#6 nmeans73  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 13 April 2011 - 10:05 AM

I bought Practical Common Lisp and it's a good book that is pretty technical. I stopped reading it however because it doesn't have any problems to do at the end of the chapters and I still need that to help me retain the information. I think I'll go back and read it after I finish with the other book on lisp I bought.

That other book I bought is Lisp 3rd Edition by Winston and Horn. It's an old book (written in 1989) but it uses common lisp syntax and it has problems throughout the chapters and a complete solution manual to the problems in the back of the book.

I guess it really comes down to how you learn a language. If I were a more experienced programmer, Practical Common Lisp would have probably been great but as it stands, I much prefer Lisp 3rd edition.
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#7 Raynes  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 13 April 2011 - 12:51 PM

Exercises are pretty overrated. Why do you need a book to give you problems to do? Especially for a Lisp language. Just open an REPL and try stuff out as you read about it. Put together what you've learned and do something with it at the end of chapters if you need to do that to retain information. I've never been a fan of exercises.
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#8 nmeans73  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 13 April 2011 - 05:08 PM

View PostRaynes, on 13 April 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Exercises are pretty overrated. Why do you need a book to give you problems to do? Especially for a Lisp language. Just open an REPL and try stuff out as you read about it. Put together what you've learned and do something with it at the end of chapters if you need to do that to retain information. I've never been a fan of exercises.


It's just easier for me to learn it that way. I understand I could just dive right in but I much prefer problems to focus my exploration.
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#9 ishkabible  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:43 PM

i got a book because i couldn't find any reading martial on it, i can come up with ideas on my own however. also i hate REPL, just throwing that out there, it makes me cringe... i can't stand not just having a file to work with.
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#10 Raynes  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:43 AM

You don't have to use an REPL for everything. There is nothing stopping you from using the old edit file, compile, run, debug, repeat cycle. However, that is so missing the point so hard that it could bend steel.

*Every* language should have a REPL. It is so important. Interactive development is important. Being able to open up an REPL and run code and work with things is something that everybody takes for granted until they actually start doing it. You wont hate the REPL once you start writing applications that you can modify and change whilst in production from a REPL.

Furthermore, a REPL eliminates the edit-compile-run-debug-repeat stuff. You don't have to throw stuff in a file, compile it, and then run it just to see what happened. That is tedious and takes an enormous amount of time that could be spent actually fixing and writing your application. The REPL fixes this by giving you ways to run your code without actually having a tangible 'compile' phase. Everything you do is done instantly. You can load code from files into the REPL as well, in case you didn't know.

"Not liking" the REPL is just silly. Not understanding it makes sense. I suggest you do more reading about the purpose of the REPL and start using it. You *will* understand. I promise.

This post has been edited by Raynes: 19 April 2011 - 07:46 AM

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#11 I X Code X 1  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 31 May 2011 - 08:51 PM

View PostRaynes, on 23 March 2011 - 05:04 AM, said:

Check out Land of Lisp. Haven't read it myself, but it's supposedly an amazing book and judging by what I've seen of it, I'd probably agree.


I can definitely vouch for Raynes on this one; I've read about 350/450ish pages and I am seeing a very good introduction to Common Lisp. Some of the examples he puts together are a bit hard for a beginner, like myself, to imagine thinking up yourself, but the true experience is coming from being able to follow the code. A lot of the times I try to look at the code and decide what it is going to do before the author gives his short paragraph about what exactly it is doing. If I had to rate this book I would say 4/5 stars. The reason for not being 5/5 is because Barski does kind of move fast and jumps through the basics without complete explanations. The games you create can, at times, be a fit far-fetched for a beginner. Just my opinion though; it is a great introductory book for Common Lisp.
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#12 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 31 May 2011 - 10:05 PM

Quote

You don't have to throw stuff in a file, compile it, and then run it just to see what happened. That is tedious and takes an enormous amount of time that could be spent actually fixing and writing your application.



I don't know what on earth you're doing, but when I want to compile and run from source files, it takes me about six keystrokes, and I never take my hands from the keyboard. On a mac: command-2 (go to my compile window) uparrow twice or once depending whether I did a run since my last compile, return. Compile done. Uparrow twice to my last "run" command (usually "ant run" since that's a target in my default build file - mostly I'm writing java) and I'm running. When I see what happened, I switch to the appropriate window to make the next changes. That's for a java project, but about the same holds for perl, C, whatever.
I haven't got this optimized for scheme yet, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to come up with a similarly simple method if I ever start writing more serious scheme.
Point is, if you're using a standard shell it's not a problem to compile and run from source in any language I work in regularly.

I'm sure there's advantages to working in the REPL, but there's no need to get frantic about it - just tell us what's good about it!
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#13 Raynes  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 11 June 2011 - 03:47 PM

I did. No compile+run+debug+repeat cycle. Trying things out and getting immediate feedback. Interactive development. You're missing the point.

But, I'm certainly not frantic about it. You're welcome to do whatever you like. You're missing out on plenty and I can assure you that you'll never be as productive with a compile+run+debug+repeat cycle than you would be doing interactive development in an REPL. That's all. Just trying to help you out.
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#14 I X Code X 1  Icon User is offline

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Re: good book for learning commen lisp?

Posted 11 June 2011 - 04:49 PM

View PostRaynes, on 11 June 2011 - 03:47 PM, said:

I did. No compile+run+debug+repeat cycle. Trying things out and getting immediate feedback. Interactive development. You're missing the point.

But, I'm certainly not frantic about it. You're welcome to do whatever you like. You're missing out on plenty and I can assure you that you'll never be as productive with a compile+run+debug+repeat cycle than you would be doing interactive development in an REPL. That's all. Just trying to help you out.


I think the REPL is a great invention. Though I am probably not aware of all it's powers and perhaps weaknesses, but I do love the fact that I write code that works 90% of the time first try. This plays a huge part into the REPL. I keep writing small parts of the program, fix them, run them again via the REPL. Eventually, when it's working perfectly I throw it into the one big program. I keep doing this same process until I've constructed what I want, and 9 times out of 10 when I run the actual program it is is working condition. That's not really possible without a REPL. That's why I think it's awesome.

This post has been edited by I X Code X 1: 11 June 2011 - 04:50 PM

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