The Language Debate....

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2

26 Replies - 2918 Views - Last Post: 26 April 2011 - 06:35 AM

#1 gareth.nic  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Head

Reputation: 23
  • View blog
  • Posts: 102
  • Joined: 22-October 10

The Language Debate....

Post icon  Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:30 PM

*
POPULAR

Going through the various programming forums, I kinda get annoyed with "is X language better than Y language?" I understand when people just start out wanting to program, but Google is out there and Bing is still alive and well. A random search would result in various languages showing up and the human mind being what it is would go into those links and you would come to some conclusion.

Every website covering programming languages tend to give you the pros of a language and what it's used for. Given nowadays they all say C# and Java are the same. Looking at the syntax, you should be able to say to yourself "I like that syntax, it looks easy and I understand it. I'll try it."

Why when a website gives you the pros and cons, do you want to read it again in a forum. I doubt they do a search in the particular forum or even bother to go down the history of it.

I really think people are getting lazy and just want stuff handed to them, not willing to try stuff on their own. Don't they read the first few links on forum sites?

If it's a intellectual conversation about a language; discussing parts of it, that's cool. People can benefit from stuff like that. I slowly die when I see "is X better than Y."

Is This A Good Question/Topic? 8
  • +

Replies To: The Language Debate....

#2 macosxnerd101  Icon User is offline

  • Self-Trained Economist
  • member icon




Reputation: 10185
  • View blog
  • Posts: 37,599
  • Joined: 27-December 08

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:38 PM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this! I definitely get annoyed when I see a question like "which language is better for game programming", and then people don't try any of the suggestions! It gets to a point where I want to say "Just pick a language and run with it! Even if it doesn't work out as your choice for programming for (blank), you still learned somethign about programming!"
Was This Post Helpful? 1
  • +
  • -

#3 gareth.nic  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Head

Reputation: 23
  • View blog
  • Posts: 102
  • Joined: 22-October 10

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:42 PM

I rate they think there's a shortcut to programming the next Facebook or Halo and the members here are gonna spoon feed them to "greatness."
Was This Post Helpful? 2
  • +
  • -

#4 macosxnerd101  Icon User is offline

  • Self-Trained Economist
  • member icon




Reputation: 10185
  • View blog
  • Posts: 37,599
  • Joined: 27-December 08

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:44 PM

I completely agree. And then they get frustrated when they find themselves in WAY over their heads. To be honest though, I think when we all got into programming by choice (rather than having to take a class or something), we all had some sort of unrealistic aspiration with programming. I think a lot of us that are still serious about programming quickly discovered these aspirations were unrealistic initially, and focused more on becoming better programmers.
Was This Post Helpful? 2
  • +
  • -

#5 gareth.nic  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Head

Reputation: 23
  • View blog
  • Posts: 102
  • Joined: 22-October 10

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:55 PM

Fully! I hope a lot of them would read this thread. Try and refine their questions.

Quote

I think a lot of us that are still serious about programming quickly discovered these aspirations were unrealistic initially, and focused more on becoming better programmers


So true, I remember when I first tried basic4gl. In my naive enthusiasm I had drawn up multiple game designs, had the functions, classes etc. planned out. But being a TOTAL noob, the first week of actual coding was an eye opener.

It's easy for our aspirations when we first start out to overwhelm us. That's why I always tell people I know who wanna program to take it in small chunks.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#6 Brewer  Icon User is offline

  • Awesome
  • member icon

Reputation: 178
  • View blog
  • Posts: 1,044
  • Joined: 14-June 10

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 05:01 PM

For the sake of playing the devil's advocate I'd like to suggest that people ask these questions is because there is are an overwhelming amount of conflicting opinions on the matter.

There are so many different technologies available that no one wants to "waste their time" learning something that may not be applicable to their future career.

However I do agree that a lot of people are looking for a one-step guide on how to become a great programmer. I know because I'm one of those people. :P

This post has been edited by Brewer: 23 April 2011 - 05:03 PM

Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#7 Core  Icon User is offline

  • using System.Linq;
  • member icon

Reputation: 773
  • View blog
  • Posts: 5,097
  • Joined: 08-December 08

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 05:12 PM

As long as a developer can get the task done, he can use whatever language he wants. At the end, the result is the only thing that matters.
Was This Post Helpful? 2
  • +
  • -

#8 gareth.nic  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Head

Reputation: 23
  • View blog
  • Posts: 102
  • Joined: 22-October 10

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 05:12 PM

View PostBrewer, on 24 April 2011 - 02:01 AM, said:

For the sake of playing the devil's advocate I'd like to suggest that people ask these questions is because there is are an overwhelming amount of conflicting opinions on the matter.

There are so many different technologies available that no one wants to "waste their time" learning something that may not be applicable to their future career.


I understand. But the thing is, why not first search for similar questions on a website like D.I.C instead of asking the same question that was asked i.e 2 days ago. If you're too lazy to do that, or if you think a question like "Is X better than Y?" is so unique and could never have been asked, than you should really reconsider programming. (that sounded harsh)

This post has been edited by gareth.nic: 23 April 2011 - 05:14 PM

Was This Post Helpful? 1
  • +
  • -

#9 Brewer  Icon User is offline

  • Awesome
  • member icon

Reputation: 178
  • View blog
  • Posts: 1,044
  • Joined: 14-June 10

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 05:40 PM

View Postgareth.nic, on 23 April 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

I understand. But the thing is, why not first search for similar questions on a website like D.I.C instead of asking the same question that was asked i.e 2 days ago. If you're too lazy to do that, or if you think a question like "Is X better than Y?" is so unique and could never have been asked, than you should really reconsider programming. (that sounded harsh)


I quite agree, but apparently it's considered rude to actually tell that to a person who asks such a question. Go figure! :bananaman:
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#10 Core  Icon User is offline

  • using System.Linq;
  • member icon

Reputation: 773
  • View blog
  • Posts: 5,097
  • Joined: 08-December 08

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:21 PM

View Postgareth.nic, on 24 April 2011 - 03:12 AM, said:

I understand. But the thing is, why not first search for similar questions on a website like D.I.C instead of asking the same question that was asked i.e 2 days ago. If you're too lazy to do that, or if you think a question like "Is X better than Y?" is so unique and could never have been asked, than you should really reconsider programming. (that sounded harsh)


http://catb.org/~esr...ons.html#before

Was mentioned before. Not working quite well for lots of people.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#11 Sergio Tapia  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Lover
  • member icon

Reputation: 1251
  • View blog
  • Posts: 4,168
  • Joined: 27-January 10

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:22 PM

View Postgareth.nic, on 23 April 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

Going through the various programming forums, I kinda get annoyed with "is X language better than Y language?" I understand when people just start out wanting to program, but Google is out there and Bing is still alive and well. A random search would result in various languages showing up and the human mind being what it is would go into those links and you would come to some conclusion.

Every website covering programming languages tend to give you the pros of a language and what it's used for. Given nowadays they all say C# and Java are the same. Looking at the syntax, you should be able to say to yourself "I like that syntax, it looks easy and I understand it. I'll try it."

Why when a website gives you the pros and cons, do you want to read it again in a forum. I doubt they do a search in the particular forum or even bother to go down the history of it.

I really think people are getting lazy and just want stuff handed to them, not willing to try stuff on their own. Don't they read the first few links on forum sites?

If it's a intellectual conversation about a language; discussing parts of it, that's cool. People can benefit from stuff like that. I slowly die when I see "is X better than Y."


Sometimes personal experience is much better than some brochure trying to sell you on something. Example, I know absolutely nothing about Haskell. Imagine I want to read about it; I can Google it, see the cliffnotes, what it's all about, but I won't really know how it functions in the real world unless I talk with actual programmers.

Google/Bing gives the 70%, but for that extra 30% actual people experience is needed.
Was This Post Helpful? 2
  • +
  • -

#12 Brewer  Icon User is offline

  • Awesome
  • member icon

Reputation: 178
  • View blog
  • Posts: 1,044
  • Joined: 14-June 10

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:44 PM

I'll agree with Sergio Tapia, but I think it would be the other way around. Google/Bing gives 30% and the other 70% comes from experience. On a side note I've recently been trying out Bing (I went 2 weeks without Googling) and I'm not a fan of it at all. The search results seem to be quite inferior to those of Google (at least in my opinion).
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#13 codeprada  Icon User is offline

  • Changed Man With Different Priorities
  • member icon

Reputation: 943
  • View blog
  • Posts: 2,353
  • Joined: 15-February 11

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:45 PM

Why debate about which language is better when you'd gain much more if you just learn em both. I know a few languages because I had to read up on them to achieve a specific project or what not. I totally don't regret it now because I can share my knowledge and experience on forums like these and still get to brush up on my weak areas. In the long run an employer would more likely pick the guy that has a well round knowledge of the field or programming than a guy that has Expert in (One Language) on his resume.

It also comes down to what you want to achieve because truly some language are better suited for a task than others. That's where new programmers get the idea that the language is better than another when truly each language has it's strong and weak points.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#14 atraub  Icon User is offline

  • Pythoneer
  • member icon

Reputation: 756
  • View blog
  • Posts: 1,990
  • Joined: 23-December 08

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:46 PM

There are times where a language is the wrong choice for the job. For example, it's a very bad idea to use BF if you want to build the next WoW... unless you're a glutton for punishment. A more realistic example: only a complete amateur would recommend learning Python to build the next epic iPhone app.

There are often many right choices for a project, and also many wrong ones.

This post has been edited by atraub: 23 April 2011 - 06:58 PM

Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#15 Ace26  Icon User is offline

  • D.I.C Head

Reputation: 40
  • View blog
  • Posts: 183
  • Joined: 10-August 08

Re: The Language Debate....

Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:25 AM

View Postgareth.nic, on 23 April 2011 - 05:30 PM, said:

Why when a website gives you the pros and cons, do you want to read it again in a forum. I doubt they do a search in the particular forum or even bother to go down the history of it.

I really think people are getting lazy and just want stuff handed to them, not willing to try stuff on their own. Don't they read the first few links on forum sites?


I wouldn't pin it down to laziness per se. It might even be the other way round, that such a one is zealous and enthusiastic enough to not want to depend on what some web crawler has gotten'em but on the opinions of the actual professionals out there who use these languages and tools on a daily basis.

Trust me when I say you can never overrate the importance of professional and experienced insight as it is invaluable. :online2long:
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2