Amazing Professionalism

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#1 Topher84  Icon User is offline

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Amazing Professionalism

Post icon  Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:35 PM

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Hello All,

I haven't posted in a while. I usually read and lurk in the background but I thought some of you may get a kick out of this. So there is a company moving to a local town who is looking to hire 200 developers. They advertised this on the news and when I went to check it out they provided a link to send a resume. I sent them my resume and this is the chain of responses (Names and Company Name removed):

First E-mail To Company:
Dear Hiring Professionals,

My name is XXXX and I am about to graduate from XXXX with a M.S. in Applied Computer Science. Please find my resume attached to this e-mail. I will be available to start working at the end of May.

Sincerely,

XXXX

First Response From Company:
XXXX,

What are you looking for as an introductory/entry-level salary?


Second E-mail To Company:
XX. XXXX,

Going from what the other students graduating with a M.S. are receiving, mid to upper 50s appears to be the common rate around the area. I am willing to negotiate a fair market value price.

Sincerely,

XXXX

Second Response From Company:
Thank you, XXXX. I can tell you that we don’t care what your degree is. They are useless (sorry, but that’s just brutal honesty). The only thing a degree of any level demonstrates to me is that you can finish something.

If you can’t hit the ground running and produce solid code in .NET and SQL out the gate, I can’t make it work for either of us. I can’t bill a client $50k a year for your services because “you have a masters degree”. I can only bill those rates if you’re producing what they need.

Now, that being said we can negotiate an entry level position (which starts at $30k) with bonus potential until you are producing at the level of a senior-level programmer if you want to talk about that?

Practical hands-on experience is what gets you paid in this field. Top quality code beating all the deadlines gets you paid. If you worked during your tenure in school and can come out the gate producing at a senior level, then please talk to me about that?

Thanks,

Last E-mail (EVER) To Company:
First of all, I was never offered an interview and you have no idea what my skills are. At $30k a year, I wish you the best of luck in finding people to work for you with the skills that you are seeking. A manager at McDonalds make more than $30k a year and they have nearly no education. Your response was extremely condescending and your starting "salary" is beyond insulting. I thank you for your time but I have no interest in pursuing this opportunity any further.




This was ridiculous! has anyone else had an experience like this?

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Replies To: Amazing Professionalism

#2 Brewer  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:41 PM

+1

I had a Sears offer me minimum wage before. I accepted.

EDIT: As a cashier that is ...

This post has been edited by Brewer: 26 April 2011 - 06:41 PM

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#3 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:45 PM

Quote

If you worked during your tenure in school and can come out the gate producing at a senior level, then please talk to me about that?

Last time I checked sentences ended with a period & questions actually asked something.

Your response was beautiful.
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#4 calvinthedestroyer  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:45 PM

HAHA You tell em!
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#5 skyhawk133  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:46 PM

I had a similar conversation at an interview one time. We got to the point in the interview where we discussed salary and I asked what they were looking to pay (never show your cards first), they said "thirty" and I said "an hour?" and they said "no, a year", and I said "I think you're probably looking for someone a little more entry level than me, thanks for the opportunity, but I'm sorry for wasting your time".

I left the room on good terms and got a call back a few months later when that 30k guy they hired didn't work out. Didn't take the position, but was nice knowing they realized their mistake.
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#6 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:49 PM

On the one hand, at least they recognize that degree != good programmer. On the other, they should have definitely asked for work samples, at the very least. I'm honestly a little skeptical about them.

My boss has said to me a couple times that someone with a Masters in CS and a few years in the field should be making ~$100k. They were definitely trying to undercut you there. Great way to respond, though!
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#7 Topher84  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:52 PM

Thanks guys! I really held back in my response. I think I may look up the CEO and forward the conversation to him. I don't mind the $30k a year offer. They are a business and they exist to make money. I can't believe the person wanted to insult me and didn't even want to know what skills I have! I didn't go to school for 6 years to write .NET and SQL and be paid $30k. I could pick a handful of people from this forum who are still in HIGH SCHOOL that could do an amazing job at .NET and SQL. To me, a MS says that I have skills WAY beyond just general programming.
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#8 TMKCodes  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:54 PM

Hmm.. So $17-18 per hour is not enough, does it need to be $28-29 per hour?
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#9 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:57 PM

View Postmacosxnerd101, on 26 April 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

On the one hand, at least they recognize that degree != good programmer.

There is a HUGE difference between what you said, & telling someone that their degree is worthless. That's just unprofessional, & the person sending that email obviously has little to no customer service skills, or public relations skills.
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#10 Topher84  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:58 PM

View PostTMKCodes, on 26 April 2011 - 06:54 PM, said:

Hmm.. So $17-18 per hour is not enough, does it need to be $28-29 per hour?


Actually if we normalize 52 weeks a year @ 40 hours per week, it's 14.42 BEFORE taxes. They didn't even mention benefits. 30k a year is ridiculous for someone with a BS. I had an internship before I graduated with a BS that paid 20-30% MORE.

This post has been edited by Topher84: 26 April 2011 - 07:41 PM

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#11 skyhawk133  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:00 PM

There are those that will say you're worth what people are willing to pay you, but I think if you looked at the average salaries of someone with an MS and several years of experience, you'd find that in the US, $60k/year+ is very attainable, and $75k+ certainly wouldn't be out of the ballpark by any stretch of the imagination.
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#12 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:00 PM

@no2pencil: I have to agree with you there.
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#13 Topher84  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:02 PM

View Postno2pencil, on 26 April 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

View Postmacosxnerd101, on 26 April 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

On the one hand, at least they recognize that degree != good programmer.

There is a HUGE difference between what you said, & telling someone that their degree is worthless. That's just unprofessional, & the person sending that email obviously has little to no customer service skills, or public relations skills.


I definitely agree with you that degree != skill. Given that the person didn't even ask for examples of work, references, or even offer an interview.....How COULD they know? It really makes them look REALLY bad in my opinion.

View Postskyhawk133, on 26 April 2011 - 07:00 PM, said:

There are those that will say you're worth what people are willing to pay you, but I think if you looked at the average salaries of someone with an MS and several years of experience, you'd find that in the US, $60k/year+ is very attainable, and $75k+ certainly wouldn't be out of the ballpark by any stretch of the imagination.


I'm in Northeast TN and the cost of living isn't really that much. The average household income is $30k per year. I only gave her the salary that my peers are currently receiving from job offers. They are just trying to lowball people.


I also just found out from a newspaper article that the person(s) that sent the e-mails are the CEO/CO-CEO! amazing...

This post has been edited by Topher84: 26 April 2011 - 07:05 PM

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#14 Creecher  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:07 PM

View PostTopher84, on 26 April 2011 - 09:02 PM, said:

View Postno2pencil, on 26 April 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

View Postmacosxnerd101, on 26 April 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

On the one hand, at least they recognize that degree != good programmer.

There is a HUGE difference between what you said, & telling someone that their degree is worthless. That's just unprofessional, & the person sending that email obviously has little to no customer service skills, or public relations skills.


I definitely agree with you that degree != skill. Given that the person didn't even ask for examples of work, references, or even offer an interview.....How COULD they know? It really makes them look REALLY bad in my opinion.

View Postskyhawk133, on 26 April 2011 - 07:00 PM, said:

There are those that will say you're worth what people are willing to pay you, but I think if you looked at the average salaries of someone with an MS and several years of experience, you'd find that in the US, $60k/year+ is very attainable, and $75k+ certainly wouldn't be out of the ballpark by any stretch of the imagination.


I'm in Northeast TN and the cost of living isn't really that much. The average household income is $30k per year. I only gave her the salary that my peers are currently receiving from job offers. They are just trying to lowball people.


I also just found out from a newspaper article that the person(s) that sent the e-mails are the CEO/CO-CEO! amazing...

Flame him.
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#15 Brewer  Icon User is offline

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Re: Amazing Professionalism

Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:12 PM

According to this article at Forbes.com, the average starting salary for CS majors these days is $60,000. Of course this is probably not the average in most places, rather the average in software hubs like Mountain View, CA.
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