Conceal Carry on Campus

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341 Replies - 14598 Views - Last Post: 17 June 2011 - 09:21 PM

#31 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:28 PM

I AM FOR ALL OF THIS
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#32 skyhawk133  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:01 PM

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I think the non-law abiding citizens that want to have a gun/carry a gun on campus (whether or not they ever intend to use it) already do so regardless of what any law says.

And those that want to spend the $200+ and sit through 2 days of training + any additional training they choose to take, plus submit to a background check and follow the rules and the law should have the right to protect themselves from those that don't follow the rules or the law regardless of where they are. Walking to their car at night on campus. Riding a city bus. Hiking in a state park. Or in line at the Post Office (all of which are illegal to conceal a firearm in the state of New Mexico)

I also think when the topic is brought up, people assume an entire campus of students is going to be carrying around guns, when in fact, an incredibly small percentage of the population ever applies for a concealed carry permit, and an even smaller percentage of those actually carry regularly. Many of those who do get their permits like the "idea" of having a concealed handgun, but would be woefully unprepared to actually use it in a SHTF situation. If carrying makes you feel "safer", so be it. But without additional training, psychological preparedness, and a mindset that you would in fact take another human beings life if they threaten to kill you, your family, or someone else (if you choose to protect others while carrying), then a CCW/CHL license is just a security blanket.

The argument that concealed carry could stop/reduce deaths from school shootings is, sadly, very unlikely because the large majority of people who get their CCW permit, choose not to carry every day. So the chances of someone actually being there to do something is slim/nill.

This also works the other way because the VAST majority of people will not and do not walk around with guns. Most folks simply aren't going to put up $200+ and 2 days of their time just to carry legally. Are there people who shouldn't be carrying a weapon that do so, sure. But there are far more that carry illegally regardless of where/whether they are "allowed" to do so.

For me, since the can of worms was opened long ago. I think our government should provide a way for citizens who WANT to follow the rules, to do so. Still, the vast majority will never have any interest in protecting themselves or their family from a deadly attack with the use of a concealed handgun. So legalizing concealed carry on campus, city buses, state parks, etc. doesn't meant a bunch of guns are going to suddenly show up on campuses everywhere. It just means those who follow the rules, and have paid the fees, taken the training, and gone through the background checks can protect themselves.

As it stands today, when a CCW holder has to go in to a business/location where carrying is prohibited, he/she has to secure the firearm in their vehicle which is a far more dangerous place than on their person because auto burglary is far more regular than violent muggings. Concealed means concealed. Nobody should see it. Ever. For any reason. Unless they are about to kill the person with it. (In fact, in many states, letting your concealed firearm be seen is considered brandishing and is a misdemeanor/felony unless it is being used in direct defense of deadly bodily harm)

The fact is that every day, if you live in a descent sized city, you walk/drive/sit next to more people illegally carrying a gun on their person or in their vehicle than anyone would care to admit. Search any state crime database for "felon in possession of a firearm" and you'll see what I'm talking about. The number of felons and generally bad people who willfully break the law by carrying a firearm when/where they are not allowed to far outnumber those legally carrying a firearm.
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#33 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:06 PM

View Postskyhawk133, on 10 May 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

The argument that concealed carry could stop/reduce deaths from school shootings is, sadly, very unlikely because the large majority of people who get their CCW permit, choose not to carry every day. So the chances of someone actually being there to do something is slim/nill.

also, because they would just curl up in a ball and cry.
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#34 RetardedGenius  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:13 PM

This is coming from a Brit whose experience with guns is limited to shooting .22RF rifles as a Cadet.

We arguably have some of the most draconian firearms legislation in the world, we still have our fair share of nut-jobs.

I look at EDC like this: you put your seatbelt on when you get in your car, but I doubt you intend to crash? :huh: The seatbelt merely serves as a precaution for the worst-case scenario. In the unlikely event you do crash, the seatbelt could well be the difference between you loosing or not loosing your life.

An important distinction to make is that a firearm is not dangerous. I could have a 1911 loaded and pointed at me right now. It's not going to harm me unless someone pulls the trigger.

Moreover the legality of a firearm isn't going to deter criminals. Criminals, by the very definition that they are criminals clearly pay little attention to the law, outlawing guns isn't going to stop them from "packing heat" and crime statistics from all over the world clearly demonstrate this...
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#35 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is online

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:14 PM

It would be Texas, and it would be a guy from my city too, of course.

I don't honestly know where I stand on this. I'm OK with Texas's gun laws the way they are. I don't think that they should change the rules on sporting events or 51% establishments or public schools. College campuses...it's tricky. These people are supposedly adults, but barely. The test to get a CC license isn't very hard, just costs a bit of money, and takes up a bit of time. I really don't know if I want armed campuses.
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#36 dorknexus  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:16 PM

not really targeting anything you said directly but it should also be understood that the concealed carry on campus is not just limited to students, it's literally anyone who goes on that campus.
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#37 skyhawk133  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:20 PM

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also, because they would just curl up in a ball and cry.

It's unfortunately true. But if there was a chance that someone I loved could protect themselves with a concealed handgun, or someone else could save their life by intervening with a concealed handgun, I'd rather they at least had the legal opportunity. I can't help if people who choose to carry a gun aren't psychologically prepared to use it, but I hope that if the day ever came that they needed to, someone would make the right move.

I've personally completed over 40 hours of firearms training in the last 6 months and still realize how easy it is to be mentally unprepared to deal with a bad situation.
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#38 WolfCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:54 PM

View Postxclite, on 10 May 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

...
The crazies also don't stop because "Oh, somebody might have a gun and kill me once I start shooting."


Yeah, instead they stop because someone had a gun and killed them when they started shooting.
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#39 Brandon_R  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:55 PM

View Posthookiethe1, on 10 May 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

I think it's a bad, bad idea. The implication is not that carrying a gun makes you a crazy, but that if you flip out and happen to have a gun in your pocket you can do a lot more damage. It's probably an impossible number to determine, but I imagine that there are a lot of people who would go on a shooting spree, but cool down on their way to getting a gun. I used to live next door to a forensic detective and he was telling me one time about the disturbing number of police suicides. I asked him if being a cop was really that bad and he said no, but if you do get depressed there's a gun hanging from your belt.
The average person loses their temper all the time, but the worst they can do is kick a garbage can or punch their steering wheel, if everybody is armed it's just increasing the potential for destruction.

Truer words were never spoken.
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#40 xclite  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:55 PM

View PostWolfCoder, on 10 May 2011 - 06:54 PM, said:

View Postxclite, on 10 May 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

...
The crazies also don't stop because "Oh, somebody might have a gun and kill me once I start shooting."


Yeah, instead they stop because someone had a gun and killed them when they started shooting.

Hardly an argument for prevention.
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#41 skyhawk133  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:00 PM

Are you a sheep, or a sheepdog?
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#42 dorknexus  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:12 PM

Quote

The crazies also don't stop because "Oh, somebody might have a gun and kill me once I start shooting."


I think there are in fact a lot of people who are not willing to lose their lives over whatever crime their are committing. For the people who are willing to lose their lives, there's very little you can do to stop those people in the first place. guns, bombs, knives, chemicals, etc., they will find a way to destroy.
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#43 xclite  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:19 PM

View PostDark_Nexus, on 10 May 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

Quote

The crazies also don't stop because "Oh, somebody might have a gun and kill me once I start shooting."


I think there are in fact a lot of people who are not willing to lose their lives over whatever crime their are committing. For the people who are willing to lose their lives, there's very little you can do to stop those people in the first place. guns, bombs, knives, chemicals, etc., they will find a way to destroy.

I think that a large number of those going on shooting sprees are willing and possibly planning to lose their lives, although I have no statistic to back that up.
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#44 dorknexus  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:20 PM

well in that case wouldn't you want to be armed?
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#45 xclite  Icon User is offline

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Re: Conceal Carry on Campus

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:38 PM

I'd rather the police force on my campus responded appropriately to the incident given that if it comes to me defending myself it's likely too late.
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