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#1 oamsath  Icon User is offline

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A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 07:39 AM

Hello.

I've posted here a few weeks ago about an idea i was hammering. I've refined it and removed some unnecessary features as it wasn't really needed.

I'm a last year computer science student and this idea is for my graduation project.
It is about a new programming language for games. It will be written in C++.

This new language is a DSL. this means that it will contain features specific to games only. Screen, Texture, Sound, and Model will be data types just like int, float, and double in other languages.

The main focus will be on two things:
1- Easy to learn: I intend to have a learning curve of maximum one week. It will be very easy for starting programmers to develop good games with it.
2- Fast: this language will not be translated to executable files, but will be translated into C++ using OpenGL library for drawing, and then calling MingW compiler to build the executable.

I know many people were dreaming about this idea. But all the existing languages didn't really focus on easy to learn rather that fast. I want to create THE BEGINNERS LANGUAGE for games.

I've tested many aspects and an initial design and was ready to start this project. but an experienced friend of mine asked me this one question:

Quote

Him: Did you hear of a big Gaming Software company making a language just like yours?
Me: none that I heard of..
Him: Why?
Me: I don't know. how can I find out?
Him: post on online forums and ask more experienced programmers.


And here I'm. Really need your comments.

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#2 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 08:33 AM

Hi and welcome to DIC. Here are my thoughts:

View Postoamsath, on 14 August 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

I'm a last year computer science student and this idea is for my graduation project.
It is about a new programming language for games. It will be written in C++.

This new language is a DSL. this means that it will contain features specific to games only. Screen, Texture, Sound, and Model will be data types just like int, float, and double in other languages.

The main focus will be on two things:
1- Easy to learn: I intend to have a learning curve of maximum one week. It will be very easy for starting programmers to develop good games with it.
2- Fast: this language will not be translated to executable files, but will be translated into C++ using OpenGL library for drawing, and then calling MingW compiler to build the executable.

I know many people were dreaming about this idea. But all the existing languages didn't really focus on easy to learn rather that fast. I want to create THE BEGINNERS LANGUAGE for games.

This wouldn't work for a number of reasons including:

1. If something easy to learn makes making games easier to make, then by virtue of games being complicated it means that the games that you create from the 'language' will be equally simple. We, as game developers, use complicated tools and languages because that is what the activity of making good games demands!

2. You second point makes no sense at all - you are saying that no executable(s) will be created yet you have to create an executable anyway? Have I missed something? Also, how on earth are you going to get the game to run without some kind of object code being created along the way? I am concerned that you are not aware of low-level issues when software is built.


View Postoamsath, on 14 August 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

I've tested many aspects and an initial design and was ready to start this project. but an experienced friend of mine asked me this one question:

Quote

Him: Did you hear of a big Gaming Software company making a language just like yours?
Me: none that I heard of..
Him: Why?
Me: I don't know. how can I find out?
Him: post on online forums and ask more experienced programmers.


And here I'm. Really need your comments.

How did you test your initial design?
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#3 oamsath  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 08:47 AM

View PostButchDean, on 14 August 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:

This wouldn't work for a number of reasons including:

1. If something easy to learn makes making games easier to make, then by virtue of games being complicated it means that the games that you create from the 'language' will be equally simple. We, as game developers, use complicated tools and languages because that is what the activity of making good games demands!

2. You second point makes no sense at all - you are saying that no executable(s) will be created yet you have to create an executable anyway? Have I missed something? Also, how on earth are you going to get the game to run without some kind of object code being created along the way? I am concerned that you are not aware of low-level issues when software is built.


About point1: The emphasis isn't on "stunning games". it is about simplifying casual games. If this project aims in the future to make cutting-edge 3D graphics it will be a whole lot of work to do.
About point2: I mean the actual game will be translated to c++ before compiling. maybe I need to rephrase this sentence.
About testing, I've laid all my features and notes to a professor I know. he is very experienced in Compilers and he gave me the green light. but he had no game programming background. so I came here.

About your last line :) I've been programming for about 5 years and making games for 2 years. I've written my own assembler for MIPS and a mini-compiler for a c-like language. I've made other projects in this subject :)

My question here is about usability, not technicality. Waiting for your reply.

This post has been edited by oamsath: 14 August 2011 - 08:51 AM

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#4 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 08:53 AM

Yes, but that doesn't mean it works for games. When I was a student I took what you described in addition to academic artificial intelligence and have worked in the games industry as a programmer working on technology for what you have described. Professors give the green light for a lot of projects out there that are somewhat dubious.

Oh yes, and does it count that I have 20 years total programming experience at various levels?

Trust me when I say that your project doesn't make sense to the game development community -feel free to put it out there but don't be surprised if it's frowned upon. As said there is no easy way to make an [original] game. :)
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#5 oamsath  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:00 AM

View PostButchDean, on 14 August 2011 - 08:53 AM, said:

Yes, but that doesn't mean it works for games. When I was a student I took what you described in addition to academic artificial intelligence and have worked in the games industry as a programmer working on technology for what you have described. Professors give the green light for a lot of projects out there that are somewhat dubious.

Oh yes, and does it count that I have 20 years total programming experience at various levels?

Trust me when I say that your project doesn't make sense to the game development community -feel free to put it out there but don't be surprised if it's frowned upon. As said there is no easy way to make an [original] game. :)


Thanks for reply.. But can you explain more?
How will this be useless more than many game engines launched every year?
It is basically a translation tools for beginners. to translate an english like syntax into complex openGL calls and producing the working game. If i present someone who knows no programming, a language and a set of simplified commands that he can write, VERY SIMPLIFIED, to make good games that appear on screen, why wouldn't it:

  • make more people learn programming in a FUN way
  • ease the process of creating casual games
  • clear away all the hassle of advanced languages and libraries just to create the most simple games.

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#6 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:07 AM

I am trying to make the point that your project is an unrealistic one. The last set of professional tools I also worked on to facilitate game development for various platform took eight years of research and development before it was anywhere near ready for release, as well as even making simple games. What you should be working on for your project is a toolset that includes a rudimentary scripting language and editors of various kinds that address either graphics, audio or AI or whatever. Trying to encompass all parts of a game engine is too much of a task for your timescale even for a professional programmer; it's not something I would do as a school project.
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#7 oamsath  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:22 AM

Aha .. I understand you know. That will be in my mind. Thanks
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#8 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:27 AM

No problem. Good luck with your project whatever you decide to do in the end. :)
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#9 bonyjoe  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:07 AM

You could have pointed all this out to him a month ago when he first posted about it butch :P
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#10 stayscrisp  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 11:01 AM

He could have but then I wouldn't have a shiny new thread to read :)
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#11 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: A New DSL for Games

Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:52 PM

I saw this coming in my crystal ball, but not even I believed it. :)
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