[EnvXOwner]

I find the OPs post extremely sexist. B9 and Neo should be immune to it, most Americans I know are sexist. AHEM my father, and others AHEM

This post has been edited by EnvXOwner: 16 August 2011 - 07:24 AM

[NeoTifa]

No, I just can't see the pictures.

[BenignDesign]

Sadly, the entire existence of a female coder is surrounded by sexism. It's not as bad now as it was 10 years ago, thankfully, but it's still there. Some days I flip out over it, some days I let it slide. Today This particular hour^*, I don't feel like having the fight.








^* Subject to change at any time with or without notice.

This post has been edited by BenignDesign: 16 August 2011 - 07:27 AM

[Craig328]

BenignDesign, on 16 August 2011 - 10:27 AM, said:

Sadly, the entire existence of a female coder is surrounded by sexism.

How so?

[EnvXOwner]

Threads involving racism, sexism, asking where people come from, and religion, are pointless. They don't get you anywhere.

[modi123_1]

Surprise freaking surprise... she doesn't *FEEL* like it right now. Pfffst. Likely excuse. Next you are going to float the ol' "I am too busy washing my hair to get into this argument now. How about we wait until your birthday and do it then?" excuse.

[NeoTifa]

Something I posted on fb a while back. True story. So yes, sexism is still around, and I tend to face it on a relatively regular basis.

Quote

so i'm starting to talk to the older engineers at work. hmmm

eng: "what are you up to today"
me: *jokingly* "absolutely nothing!"
eng: "haha sounds about right"
me: "well when i touch stuff it's garunteed to break, so i just do nothing, and nothing breaks"
eng: "hahahahahaha!"
me: "yeah, that's why i prefer to order other people to touch stuff for me, so when it breaks, i can blame them instead of me!"
eng: "HAHA! you sound like a project leader! you're alright, you know? you're going to go places. but they can't have women engineers, i thought we put an end to that years ago?! oh well, i approve of you, kid. you're alright."
me: "ermmm thanks?"

[Craig328]

EnvXOwner, on 16 August 2011 - 10:31 AM, said:

Threads involving racism, sexism, asking where people come from, and religion, are pointless. They don't get you anywhere.

I rarely take leet internet morality advice from 14 year olds.

NeoTifa, on 16 August 2011 - 10:36 AM, said:

Something I posted on fb a while back. True story. So yes, sexism is still around, and I tend to face it on a relatively regular basis.

Quote

so i'm starting to talk to the older engineers at work. hmmm

eng: "what are you up to today"
me: *jokingly* "absolutely nothing!"
eng: "haha sounds about right"
me: "well when i touch stuff it's garunteed to break, so i just do nothing, and nothing breaks"
eng: "hahahahahaha!"
me: "yeah, that's why i prefer to order other people to touch stuff for me, so when it breaks, i can blame them instead of me!"
eng: "HAHA! you sound like a project leader! you're alright, you know? you're going to go places. but they can't have women engineers, i thought we put an end to that years ago?! oh well, i approve of you, kid. you're alright."
me: "ermmm thanks?"

Yer dad was prolly joking.

[NeoTifa]

He's not my dad. And this isn't the first time he's said something like this. This time he was saying it with a smile, but when I first came here he was like "shit, ANOTHER female? Aren't you supposed to be at home with the kids?!"

[Craig328]

Oh well...he's an idiot then.

I mean, who else was gonna make the coffee and answer the phones?

[EnvXOwner]

hmmm. Why wouldn't you take morality advice from a 14 year-old. What I said I feel is applied everywhere.

[BenignDesign]

Craig328, on 16 August 2011 - 10:29 AM, said:

BenignDesign, on 16 August 2011 - 10:27 AM, said:

Sadly, the entire existence of a female coder is surrounded by sexism.

How so?

I'm not saying it's constant, but there is still a very tangible sense of "girls can't code" within the coding community at large. We've had threads started here about "Can girls code? What do you think?" That launched into 20 page arguments claiming that the feminine of the species lacks the logical and mathematical reasoning abilities to be an effective and successful coder.

I have been through many a job interview where I was told a male would be preferred for a variety of reasons.

I was once asked whether or not I have children. The question was followed up by a barrage of "where will they be when you're working?", "do you intend to have more?", "where is their father?" inquiries and ended with a "we would prefer a man for this position. Women tend to be too focused on family to do the job adequately."

I was once smacked on the ass following an interview and told, "I could definitely see you bringing my coffee, but never writing my code."

I had a professor in college who stood in the front of the classroom the first day of the semester and announced to the group of 12 guys and 4 girls: "I firmly believe that women have no place in programming. You ladies would be wise to choose an alternate career path." For the rest of the semester, I was the only woman in the room. I was tutoring the guys for extra cash on the side, I had another prof check every single one of my programs for that class to make sure all was fully functional and my code properly written... and I still had to play the helpless damsel in order to eek out a passing grade.

I dated a guy years ago - we were both coders. We had the same credentials... we had worked for the same companies, attended the same school, had roughly the same amount of experience. I walked into a computer shop one day to hand out my resume and inquire about openings for coders. I was told there were no openings available. The guy I was dating walked into the same shop an hour later with his resume and asked the same question. They hired him on the spot.

My mother has spent years lecturing me on how programming is a "man's field" and I need to find something suited to a woman, like nursing or teaching or being a housewife. To this day, regardless that I am successful by Podunk standards, she is insistant that I need to give up the "silly programming dream" and find "woman's work".

How many more examples would you like?

This post has been edited by BenignDesign: 16 August 2011 - 07:49 AM

[Creecher]

[Craig328]

I suppose all one can do with a statement like that is to supply anecdotes of personal experiences that support the arrived at belief. If those things happened (and I have no reason to believe they didn't) that is indeed all the evidence you need.

I've worked as a developer for the past 12 years or so and have been in hiring/interviewing positions for the past 7. I can recall working with but 1 female dev and interviewing 2 others. The one I work with I work with presently and while I'm not her, I can suggest she'd say there is no sexism here. She's quite competent and excels at what she does. The two women I interviewed for dev positions were both less than qualified by any objective standard to be applying for the job they had submitted resumes to. Both nice enough young ladies but entirely lacking in the skill set(s) we required. Thing was, at the time, it was a 4 dude dev team looking to add a 5th...and we'd have liked to have had a female dev if for nothing more than the change of scenery/outlook (although that in itself might be construed as sexist).

After those interviews I did think back on the lack of female devs in my immediate circle of colleagues but I ascribed that to there being a dearth of females in the field in general and the ones who approached us for jobs being unqualified. Oddly, none of the male applicants we had for that same job were unqualified. I recall wondering at the time if the women applied thinking their gender might lend them an advantage in that we'd be willing to overlook professional shortcomings in favor of having a chick in the office (neither one was unattractive).

[BenignDesign]

Wow. I said sexism is alive and well and you take it to mean I'm calling everyone sexist?

I have a good job. There is no blatant sexism here. You asked why I considered sexism to be a real thing... I told you why.

Ask the lone woman in your office if she has ever encountered sexism in the field. I would be very surprised if she says no.