[louarnold]

Atli, on 26 September 2011 - 07:41 AM, said:

louarnold, on 25 September 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

I have been reading. PHP will require alot of typing (html etc) and since I don't know of a good IDE this alternative doesn't seem helpful.

Netbeans, PhpStorm, Eclipse PDT, Aptana, phpDesigner, PHPEdit... to name a few.

Whatever you choose, it will require a lot of coding, whether it's ASP.NET, PHP, ColdFusion, Java, Node.js, etc... And pretty much the only thing ALL of them have in common, and none of them can do without, is the "html etc" part. The trick isn't finding the fastest language, but the language you work fastest in.

If there was some magic drag-and-drop IDE that could "simply" build a complex web app in no time, many of us would be out of a job. (Which is perhaps why none of us have built it yet... )

I think you (Atli and Modi123_1) are correct. It will all take alot of coding. I am very comfortable with C++ C#, (and then I guess Java). So then I have to pick something that will offer a challenge and a learning experience.

[louarnold]

After more reading, I think I might use ASP.NET MVC 3 to learn the MVC part. But I read (in 2-3 year old posts) that the "model integration" is not in MVC 3, making it more VC rather than MVC. Does anyone know if this is still true?

[sas1ni69]

If you really want to cut development time then why not use PHP with a framework like Codeigniter or Yii. I prefer the latter. Another alternative to ASP.NET which I have nothing against is Ruby on Rails.

[louarnold]

sas1ni69, on 26 September 2011 - 07:21 PM, said:

If you really want to cut development time then why not use PHP with a framework like Codeigniter or Yii. I prefer the latter. Another alternative to ASP.NET which I have nothing against is Ruby on Rails.

Codeigniter looks good.
But the IDE's I read about make me wonder. Most appear to be enhanced code editors. Are there any that allow drag and drop of controls on a page, perhaps Eclipse?

This post has been edited by louarnold: 27 September 2011 - 05:14 PM

[modi123_1]

No, there's not many drag and drop IDEs like one would find with say Visual Studios.

[louarnold]

modi123_1, on 27 September 2011 - 06:48 PM, said:

No, there's not many drag and drop IDEs like one would find with say Visual Studios.

OK. Thanks very much for your time. That was a key question that eluded me until now.

[Lemur]

Really I wouldn't even touch an IDE at your level. You really don't have a substantial amount of skill which only makes an IDE a horrible hindrance to your progression. It becomes a crutch to learning rather than a professional tool for speeding development. It's a common pitfall that can really screw you early on. I guarantee that you will be relearning everything one way or another if you keep at that path.

There is no easy and instant way to programming. It takes years to get good at it. There's no such thing as a magical overnight course that will give you professionalism to make money or do amazing things.

The only possible exception to this is if you already know one language to a substantial extent (5+ years not counting school.) This makes learning others a trivial task of learning syntax and nuances.

Really your issue isn't finding a language, it's picking one and learning it to near perfection instead of trying to be a jack of all trades with no preliminary experience.

[Curtis Rutland]

louarnold, on 26 September 2011 - 07:31 PM, said:

After more reading, I think I might use ASP.NET MVC 3 to learn the MVC part. But I read (in 2-3 year old posts) that the "model integration" is not in MVC 3, making it more VC rather than MVC. Does anyone know if this is still true?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. "Model integration"? Models are just classes. That's it. They're integrated by default. And it works fine.

Although, you'd probably not be happy with this either, since ASP.NET MVC 3 doesn't really have a drag/drop editor either, and is bound by the same limitations as regular ASP.NET (dependence on IIS and Windows).

You're asking for the magic solution. There's no server-side web language that's going to let you build most of it in a GUI builder then write tiny amounts of code to make it work. Server-side web languages are powerful tools, but they involve writing code to do what's necessary. And GUI builders...usually you can spot a site made in one of those from a mile off. You just need to get competent in writing your HTML/CSS.

I love ASP.NET MVC 3. It's my web language of choice. PHP is a dynamically typed mess, an amalgamation of years of unfocused progress. Ruby is a walled garden. If you want to live inside the Rails environment it's great, if you want to go out of the box it's a PITA. I've never tried JSP or django, so I can't comment.

I think you should clearly lay out what you're looking to do here. If you want Apache, .NET is pretty much out.

[macosxnerd101]

If you don't have an incredibly strong background in Java, stay away from Java EE technologies like JSP. Java EE is for enterprise-grade applications and isn't easy to pick up if you don't have the Java background already. If you're familiar with C-like languages like C++, C#, or Java, then PHP is going to be pretty straight-forward from a syntax perspective.

[louarnold]

Curtis Rutland, on 28 September 2011 - 10:22 AM, said:

louarnold, on 26 September 2011 - 07:31 PM, said:

After more reading, I think I might use ASP.NET MVC 3 to learn the MVC part. But I read (in 2-3 year old posts) that the "model integration" is not in MVC 3, making it more VC rather than MVC. Does anyone know if this is still true?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. "Model integration"? Models are just classes. That's it. They're integrated by default. And it works fine.

Although, you'd probably not be happy with this either, since ASP.NET MVC 3 doesn't really have a drag/drop editor either, and is bound by the same limitations as regular ASP.NET (dependence on IIS and Windows).

You're asking for the magic solution. There's no server-side web language that's going to let you build most of it in a GUI builder then write tiny amounts of code to make it work. Server-side web languages are powerful tools, but they involve writing code to do what's necessary. And GUI builders...usually you can spot a site made in one of those from a mile off. You just need to get competent in writing your HTML/CSS.

I love ASP.NET MVC 3. It's my web language of choice. PHP is a dynamically typed mess, an amalgamation of years of unfocused progress. Ruby is a walled garden. If you want to live inside the Rails environment it's great, if you want to go out of the box it's a PITA. I've never tried JSP or django, so I can't comment.

I think you should clearly lay out what you're looking to do here. If you want Apache, .NET is pretty much out.

Thanks for the commentary. I still have not decided, but when I started I had the impression that all was drag and drop. Now I know better. The goal is to get this done rapidly. It would have been good to use the Linux server, but that was not an absolute. That's all I'm going to write because this web GUI is driving me crazy. What I type keeps scrolling down. Anyway, thanks again.

[darek9576]

Just pick one technology and stick to it instead of keeping posting about what you are about to pick and wasting time.

[kaushalam]

The best alternative of ASP.net is the PHP, as of today. This language has capability to compete with asp.net

[Atli]

Please pay attention to the age of threads before posting in them, and try not to resurrect old threads like this unless you have something new and useful to add.

[JackOfAllTrades]

I'm sure this just another Indian SEO.