Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

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99 Replies - 50491 Views - Last Post: 30 May 2014 - 04:18 AM

#16 111027  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:54 PM

I guess i'll try to explain what we meant. We didn't mean that it's a bad idea to offer help to those who want to learn programming. After all, it is how most of the people on this site learned how to program in the first place. We're against people with little to no programming abilities call themselves programmers.

I've said this a few times on DIC now, but learning a programming language is but the beginning. You don't get to call yourself a programmer until you've learned a whole lot of: maths, data structures, algorithm theory, finite automata and basic hardware. Only after you've learned the basics of those, and applied them to a number of actual programs (which "programmers" have not, will not, can not do) can you start considering yourself a programmer.
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#17 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:00 PM

That's a different problem from what that site is doing. It's a problem that other fields have to deal with, and it never really goes away. Doctors and lawyers have laws protecting their fields, but those are really more to protect the public and they're not 100% effective!
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#18 111027  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:02 PM

As i've said myself, it's been going on for years. We can't do much about it. Sadly it has negative effects, such as lowering of programmer's salaries etc. but then again i do find it a bit flattering that so many people want in on the craft.
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#19 master.bennett  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:12 PM

To be honest I'm all for it. For some people, it may surprise them when they try to take on a complex project and might open people's eyes that programming is not as easy and may actually make people value those who can hack it in industry more.

You can never gain a true appreciation of something unless you try it for yourself.
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#20 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:12 PM

Yes, the barrier to entry appears to be low, especially to those who don't know better. Interpreted languages make it easy to get something basic that seems to work going on your computer. From there it's easy to dream big, with no understanding of what's ahead of you.

But hey, everyone has to start at the beginning, and bad programmers can end up make the good ones look great by comparison. That can push wages up for those who can fix bad code.
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#21 111027  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:16 PM

Fixing bad code is boring. Ever tried 'fixing' a 30k line app? I'd pay you NOT to have to do it, and just rewrite it from scratch.
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#22 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:28 PM

View Post111027, on 06 January 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Fixing bad code is boring. Ever tried 'fixing' a 30k line app? I'd pay you NOT to have to do it, and just rewrite it from scratch.

The preferred way to fix it! ;)
The customer won't care or even know that it's new code. Only that it works. I know this isn't always possible, but you don't have to take every job.
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#23 111027  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:29 PM

View PostCTphpnwb, on 06 January 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

View Post111027, on 06 January 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Fixing bad code is boring. Ever tried 'fixing' a 30k line app? I'd pay you NOT to have to do it, and just rewrite it from scratch.

The preferred way to fix it! ;)


You, sir, made my evening :)
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#24 blackcompe  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:04 PM

Definitely a low blow to those who've been putting in work over the years to earn the title "developer." On the other hand, I have no problem with trying to get more people interested in programming. I saw this on CNN too, but I didn't pay it any attention. Looked like bull.
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#25 lucas524  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:47 PM

View PostMikhail, on 06 January 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Just because you read a book or used an "INTERACTIVE" learning site does not mean that you're ready for the real world aka "The Industry".

My 2 cents.


I agree with you. I just did four years for a degree and I still have so much more to learn about programming.
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#26 LanceJZ  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:12 PM

That also does not mean it wont. This is some sad posts I'm reading here. Sense when did learning become a bad thing? Ever think it may open a road of learning to someone who finds it of interest, who did not before know it would? Why be so closed minded?

View PostMikhail, on 06 January 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Just because you read a book or used an "INTERACTIVE" learning site does not mean that you're ready for the real world aka "The Industry".

My 2 cents.


What I think your major flaw in your logic is, anyone can be a programer. That does not mean everyone can program. The more people that are exposed to it, the better. This is not some elite club, where only those who know, the know, can join. Anyone can join, if they have the skill, and how do you know, they write a program using that skill. All this will do is open the door to more people, and that is a good thing. Education is never a bad thing.
/End of Rant.

View PostMartyr2, on 06 January 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

As many have pointed out the "idiots in the industry" phenomenon is already real. I totally agree. However, what I think a site like this is going to do is help break down the little barriers we have left on the industry. They are doing this on purpose. Make everyone a programmer! The problem is, not everyone is a programmer and should not be lead to believe that if you can write code you can work as a programmer.

You could go through all the steps of a programming course, even get a degree and still not have the "knack" for programming. As I am sure most of you guys can see being a programmer is just as much about creativity, resourcefulness and even a lifestyle.

I guess what I just don't want to see is an influx of idiot programmers and amplify the phenomenon. :)

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#27 sonnymtate  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:14 PM

View PostApokio, on 06 January 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

I don't think that many people will stick with it and those that do could actually turn out to be good programmers. I am not saying this should be the only source but those that are interested may look into other learning options and turn out to be good. Another good thing I think that could come out of something like this is showing people what programming is. Granted it is Javascript but it can show people kind of what it takes and may make someone understand programming a little better so they don't think the programmer at their company is a wizard and can make a computer do anything with a few key strokes.

i mostly for any kind of education and knowledge building tools and I see this as another one that could be added to someone's learning material to help further knowledge and promote higher thinking and study.


I agree with this. There are too many managers out there that have unreasonable expectations. Maybe if they took a course like this it might open their eyes.
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#28 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:22 PM

I agree that education is never a bad thing. I'm all for making people a little more technically literate. Just as in any field, more people will feel more empowered to do more. This will naturally lend to people who know just enough to create headaches. However, I feel that people who are more technically literate will have a better appreciation for the development process. And anyone who has been in the industry (and many who haven't) knows that non-technical people often overestimate the amount of work we can crank out in a given period of time.

That being said, I don't think people should realistically go through this set of tutorials and feel like they can do everything and are ready for the industry. The site is being misrepresented and the result can lead to employers unwittingly hiring more people that don't know what they're doing. Programming takes practice- lots of it. If this site starts people on a track where they become motivated to learn more (even if programming is just a hobby for them), then great. Do I think it will do that for most people? Not really.

Quote

What I think your major flaw in your logic is, anyone can be a programer. That does not mean everyone can program.

That's like saying everyone can be a mathematician, but not everyone can do integral calculus. If one is a programmer, then they by very definition have the ability to write computer programs.
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#29 Mikhail  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:25 PM

I am not saying it's a bad thing to learn from the book or anything however honestly I've met so many people contractors included and people applying for Software Analyst jobs. Yeah they come into an interview they tell us they know their stuff. Well okay if you know your stuff please demonstrate it to us on our whiteboard or on a computer demonstrate what you know, typical response from them "I took several courses and I read a book(s) why wont my code compile?" I am not trying to be close minded or anything here, I would hire a developer with years of experience the same way I would hire a novice you have to prove to us that you know what you are doing. Just because you read the book or took a class doesn't mean that you can actually jump into it and do it right away that is just unrealistic.

Fun Fact: Most of those people who currently go to a University or are switching careers into IT usually do it just to make an easy buck due it to seeming easy and many universities are lowering their standards most of them here in Illinois require the bare minimum.

I have been coding well over 7 years and I do not claim to be an expert because I know that I am not. Just like I said earlier programming skill does not come to your overnight this feat takes years to achieve and with programming languages growing and expanding it is nearly impossible to master everything there is to it.

I am probably going to be flamed for this though.
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#30 lucas524  Icon User is offline

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Re: Codeacademy.com, Good Idea or Disaster for Programmers?

Posted 06 January 2012 - 07:23 PM

View PostMikhail, on 06 January 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

I am not saying it's a bad thing to learn from the book or anything however honestly I've met so many people contractors included and people applying for Software Analyst jobs. Yeah they come into an interview they tell us they know their stuff. Well okay if you know your stuff please demonstrate it to us on our whiteboard or on a computer demonstrate what you know, typical response from them "I took several courses and I read a book(s) why wont my code compile?" I am not trying to be close minded or anything here, I would hire a developer with years of experience the same way I would hire a novice you have to prove to us that you know what you are doing. Just because you read the book or took a class doesn't mean that you can actually jump into it and do it right away that is just unrealistic.

Fun Fact: Most of those people who currently go to a University or are switching careers into IT usually do it just to make an easy buck due it to seeming easy and many universities are lowering their standards most of them here in Illinois require the bare minimum.

I have been coding well over 7 years and I do not claim to be an expert because I know that I am not. Just like I said earlier programming skill does not come to your overnight this feat takes years to achieve and with programming languages growing and expanding it is nearly impossible to master everything there is to it.

I am probably going to be flamed for this though.


I will not flame you on this. I agree with you. I have learned in the time I have spent programming, that you have to have a passion for it. Some people might understand what a book is telling them to do, but that will not make them passionate about what they are doing or creating. Since I started programming I have met some good programmers and many bad ones. The good ones do what I do, its more of an obsession with the code. They do not want a program they can do all their work in, they want to take notepad and create completely on their own. This is why passion is what makes a good programmer =) I am not saying some of the GUIs offered are not good ones, because there are some really nice ones.
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