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#1 dartoscoder  Icon User is offline

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Appeal of IDEs

Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:17 PM

Can anyone tell me what the appeal is to IDEs that are not VC++ (Windows users only please)

With intellisense and an astounding Debugger I was just wondering what anything else would have that this doesn't

P.S. This is not a VC++ fanboy thread and I am not putting anything else down. I want to know this so I can see why some other ones might be better.
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Replies To: Appeal of IDEs

#2 Oler1s  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:59 PM

Here's one reason you won't use Visual Studio. You need to use another compiler (and I don't mean Intel). GCC and Clang don't integrate with VS.
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#3 AdamSpeight2008  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:14 PM

Wrong on both parts Oler1s
GCC
Clank
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#4 dartoscoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:03 PM

When would you need a different compiler. Keep in mind i am talking windows only
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#5 jimblumberg  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 19 January 2012 - 07:01 AM

*
POPULAR

When you want a C compiler that supports the current C standard.

Jim
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#6 vividexstance  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 19 January 2012 - 10:37 AM

View Postdartoscoder, on 19 January 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

When would you need a different compiler. Keep in mind i am talking windows only

When one compiler has features another compiler doesn't. Or like jimblumberg said when one compiler is more standards conformant than another. Also, some compilers have added extensions and some people might need to use those extensions.
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#7 dartoscoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 19 January 2012 - 09:22 PM

Can you give me an example of one of these?
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#8 Karel-Lodewijk  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 20 January 2012 - 04:33 AM

View Postdartoscoder, on 20 January 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

Can you give me an example of one of these?


C++11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B11) compliance to name one, no compiler that I know of has claimed to be fully C++11 compliant but gcc and clang seems to be a little further along.
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#9 jimblumberg  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 20 January 2012 - 07:15 AM

Microsoft C does not seem to offer any support for anything other than C89. There is no C99 support available, or planned, much less the current C standard (C11). So if you need the advanced features available with the current standard, Microsoft C is not an option.

Quote

With intellisense and an astounding Debugger I was just wondering what anything else would have that this doesn't

Not everyone uses intellisense, and some even believe that this makes the compiler sluggish on everything but the most cutting edge hardware. While the Microsoft compiler and debugger are good, they are not the only good compiler and debugger available for the Windows environment. There are also people that do not use C++ and do not need the C++ compiler, so a smaller more standard compliant compiler may be a more advantages solution. Perhaps something like Pelles C, which includes everything the full version of the Microsoft C compiler contains, including the resource editor.

Jim
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#10 ishkabible  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 20 January 2012 - 07:48 AM

Also, VC++ is a really heavy IDE. code::blocks is much lighter weight. I use MSVC++ as my second compiler.

I've also gotten to where I prefer GDB.

This post has been edited by ishkabible: 20 January 2012 - 07:50 AM

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#11 ccubed  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 20 January 2012 - 05:54 PM

View Postdartoscoder, on 18 January 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Can anyone tell me what the appeal is to IDEs that are not VC++ (Windows users only please)

With intellisense and an astounding Debugger I was just wondering what anything else would have that this doesn't

P.S. This is not a VC++ fanboy thread and I am not putting anything else down. I want to know this so I can see why some other ones might be better.


As an IDE, Visual Studio was made to be used exclusively in a team environment. Even the express edition has a lot of features that the average 'give me a white page and let me code' coder doesn't need. It includes a lot of features centered on whatever language you pick too, including the ability to compile and test on different platforms of the windows family. The average user doesn't need all of the features that VS packs into itself. It is decidedly focused on a project management sense. This also makes it huge.

Then you have other IDEs, which are different altogether. Code:Blocks, as someone mentioned, is small. Super small. So for someone wanting to tote it around, its a good option. It also allows you to keep the configuration file on the same drive as the program, meaning all your settings transfer from one place to another. It doesn't have as many built in features, but it has a ton you can download.

Additionally, sometimes I use cygwin when I want linux specific directives. GDB is by far a greater debugger, in my opinion, than the one in VS could ever hope to be. It's also faster to use cygwin. Throw text in a file and compile it. See output immediately.

Mostly though, use what you're comfortable with. Notepad++ can be an IDE if you set it up right. There are advantages to a couple of different IDEs (such as netbeans being exclusively java and StanIDE being only python), but ultimately, it's up to you which one you want. Use the one you like that fits your situation. I for one use VS for VB C++ and .NET, Netbeans for Java, Eclipse for Android, Cygwin when I want linux specific linux headers and several other IDEs for different pursuits just because they're easier for that pursuit.

So in short: There are tons of reasons other IDEs are used on windows.
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#12 NickDMax  Icon User is offline

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Re: Appeal of IDEs

Posted 23 January 2012 - 01:19 PM

There are several reasons to use something other than visual studio:
#1 Needs of the project. VS has its limitations, for example cost is a big limiting factor for me, I just can't afford the full VS and the free version is crippled in many ways such as access to OpenMP extensions).

#2 integration with other technologies -- VS is VERY Microsoft centric. While you can work with wxWidgets and Qt in VS it is not exactly convenient as the tools for visually designing dialogs etc. are not designed to work with MS technologies. If you have a free version of VS you may not even be able to use the visual design tools at all. Not only are these technologies cross-platform, but they can also be more suited to the task at hand, faster to develop, and have a different look-and-feel from the standard "obviously-MFC-based" programs.

#3 Compatibility with older code -- Many projects have a prior investment in older technologies and may have code and libraries compiled with an older tool and it just is not cost effective to re-write perfectly good code to work with a rather stubborn and stuck-up development tool like visual studio. While I fee that there are stronger detractors to using Borland's C++Builder there are plenty of Borland's Delphi-based libraries out there in the wild and many of them would be very costly to redevelop.

#4 Productivity - It takes a long time to really learn a tool such as an IDE. Even longer to find all the shortcuts and workarounds to be really productive in that environment. For example I tend to develop in a text editor (rather than an IDE) and have it customized pretty heavily so that I can work very very quickly from there. VS's editor CAN do most of the same things but I don't know how to do them without diving into the help - and then I find somethings very uncomfortable such as VS's RegEx search/replace (even when developing and VS I often just copy/paste into my editor and then use Regex search/replace there because it is far faster than trying to get VS's excuse for RegEx search/replace to do what I need).

#5 Experience/Perspective - Development in VS does tend to steer you towards the MS way of doing things. For example Hungarian-notation-like naming conventions are very popular in windows programming even though Microsoft itself abandoned the practice a few versions back. So for example you will often see variables named something like szName which is a zero-terminated string. I don't want to accuse Microsoft of spreading about bad habits but it is good to get other perspectives and things. It is much easier to make informed decisions on things if you see an issue form different perspectives.


I am sure I could continue to wax on and on about different reasons to use other IDEs but ultimately it comes down to: Not everyone fits in the same category.

Personally as a personal preference I just don't like the way VS does things. I think it is a great tool -- but I don't like the default shortcuts (but am too lazy to go and remap them all). My indention style and the IDE's default don't really match up and so I am always fighting with it to indent things the way I like to see them. I work with Eclipse as a Java developer and I really like many of the tools available to me in that environment. I find VS's build system confusing (again probably more a failure on my part), rather than figure it out I would rather just use a tool that I understand and can quickly get done what I need to get done and move on to the next thing. I can't afford the full version and find the workarounds to getting ATL/WTL to work with the express version to be rather irritating -- I would rather work with Qt (plus I just like the look-and-feel of Qt apps better).
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