10 Replies - 4801 Views - Last Post: 25 January 2012 - 09:42 PM

#1 webwired  Icon User is offline

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Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:16 PM

So back in 1999 I learned to make my own websites and webapps with Notepad, writing HTML, Javascript, and PHP with MySQL... Life seemed wonderful writing what we now call spaghetti code, there seemed to be no limit on what I could create and the freedom I had in design...

So somewhere along the line I decide that I want to be a programmer when I grow up... A little bit of research shows that starting a career in PHP has about a snowball's chance in Hell of actually making it, so decided to make a go at Microsoft's world of .NET...

At first I was intrigued at how one could simply drag and drop controls on a webform, but quickly saw the price in such ease... More time was required to adjust the look and feel of the site/app, so much so that it seemed that projects actually took longer, simply because they required more time in the design look, than they actually took in the programming and logic...

During my initial .NET crusades I also learned about winforms, now there was a beauty to behold, one could slap together a complex PC based program in no time, once you learned a few tips and tricks...

Then came the time of the great merge... When PC and Web based programs were expected to look and operate the same (at least in the end-user's perception)... and so new technologies were born, creating a whole new evolutionary path with new opportunities to be grasped...

In the world I seemed to know not so long ago, there were programmers and there were designers... Programmers engineered, analyzed, developed logic, and wrote code... This was the way of things, typically you couldn't expect a programmers program to be the most beautiful of things... Designers were artists, they were masters of cool tools like Photoshop and Flash... When the two of these people met, their programs were beautiful, they flowed, and functioned magnificently...

However, since the great merge, WPF was born... WPF is ultimately the future and winforms will become legacy... The problem? Well, now with WPF, if you're not familiar with tools such as Photoshop and Flash, then you might as well forget it, because Expression, the interface of creating the UI for WPF applications, seems like a Microsoft version of Photoshop and Flash... So where does this leave one who wants to delve into the new world of PC based application development? The answer, you'll have to learn the tools of the trade for what used to be a completely different occupation in itself, all the while learning how to program as well...

Then there's MVC, absolutely magnificent, like WPF, it will be the future of Microsoft's web applications and webforms will become legacy... The only problem I can find with MVC is one huge honking problem, their extremely antiquated, built-in Membership/Authorization system they have going on... I mean really, it's not that this 1980s version of NTs users, roles, and permissions is out-dated or anything... Nor the fact that they expect you to use this out-of-date, antique system for modern day web CRUD apps, which is much like fitting a square peg in a round hole... Can you say Hack, Hack, Hack... I wouldn't even be bringing this up, if it weren't for the fact that you can't even really start to build and play around with your new fancy MVC apps until you figure out a way to manipulate a hack-around with their Membership/Authorization system...

Anyway, I'm done now, back to work...

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Replies To: Programming made easier, errr, right?

#2 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:38 PM

Just say'n - this might be a good post for your developer blog.

http://www.dreaminco...automodule=blog
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#3 webwired  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 21 January 2012 - 01:05 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 21 January 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Just say'n - this might be a good post for your developer blog.

http://www.dreaminco...automodule=blog


I know this may sound crazy in today's times, but I've never actually blogged before... I suppose it's time for this old dog to learn another new trick...
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#4 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 21 January 2012 - 06:47 PM

When I was a kid, we taught ourselves BASIC; with line numbers. Most programs were the very definition of spaghetti code, due in part to the language itself. However, anyone could do it. It was dead simple. Sure, you could only do console apps, but then we only had consoles anyway. That was where a programmer started.

Fast forward to today, systems are more complex. Hunker down to any modern IDE and breadth of assumed knowledge is overwhelming. Much of the frameworks exist to solve problems that only veteran programmers really understand while at the same treating the users like they need to be protected from the details. Honestly, I don't know where newbies start.

Unlike web tech, which is already the juggling of several elements before you even get started, more traditional programming languages can start simple. Most programming languages still start at the console, even though that doesn't make sense to users of modern OSes. Because it's simple; complexity can get layered later. A part of me misses BASIC...
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#5 AlbuquerqueApache  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:36 AM

That's what I first programmed in. I used Tru-Basic and it was procedural. Of cours eObject Oriented programming was in existence, it just wasn't taught at a high school level.

Anyway, GOTO and subroutines are something I don't see too much of anymore.
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#6 jjsaw5  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:13 AM

View Postbaavgai, on 21 January 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

Fast forward to today, systems are more complex. Hunker down to any modern IDE and breadth of assumed knowledge is overwhelming. Much of the frameworks exist to solve problems that only veteran programmers really understand while at the same treating the users like they need to be protected from the details. Honestly, I don't know where newbies start.


I can attest to this, right out of school I really struggled with where to start. I recently just switched jobs and am taking on a whole new language and environment and I was hoping that with five years experience under my belt it would made things a little easier. It has in someways but I very much have had to start over. New language to learn, new environments to deal with, new business process, and new users. The only thing that has remained the same is that question...Where do you start?
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#7 wordswords  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 25 January 2012 - 03:12 AM

"A little bit of research shows that starting a career in PHP has about a snowball's chance in Hell of actually making it"

This is weird. PHP is how I started my career.
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#8 webwired  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 25 January 2012 - 10:42 AM

View Postwordswords, on 25 January 2012 - 04:12 AM, said:

"A little bit of research shows that starting a career in PHP has about a snowball's chance in Hell of actually making it"

This is weird. PHP is how I started my career.


Didn't say it was impossible smart ass, just said it was hard.
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#9 wordswords  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 25 January 2012 - 03:24 PM

View Postwebwired, on 25 January 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

View Postwordswords, on 25 January 2012 - 04:12 AM, said:

"A little bit of research shows that starting a career in PHP has about a snowball's chance in Hell of actually making it"

This is weird. PHP is how I started my career.


Didn't say it was impossible smart ass, just said it was hard.


How is it hard? When I was starting out, there were many more PHP jobs in my area than .NET jobs. Perhaps your area was different?
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#10 Programmist  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 25 January 2012 - 07:02 PM

View Postwebwired, on 21 January 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Then there's MVC, absolutely magnificent, like WPF, it will be the future of Microsoft's web applications and webforms will become legacy...


So MVC is just now making it's way into .NET?
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#11 Sergio Tapia  Icon User is offline

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Re: Programming made easier, errr, right?

Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:42 PM

ASP.Net MVC has existed since March 2009, granted it has only gained steam since 2010.

It's a fantastic framework on all counts; and in fact it's what got me to like web programming. I used to despise ASP.Net webforms and PHP just made me want to shiv myself. But something about the Model View Controller model made things click in my head and I love it now. I like it even more than desktop application programming.
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