[CTphpnwb]

modi123_1, on 17 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

What if the masses say that your infringed rights do not matter and do not say CTphpnwb committed a crime? Man that would suck.

And that does happen when corporations take what's yours. When banks commit large scale fraud they've taken a lot of what's yours. None of it has been called criminal.

[supersloth]

jon.kiparsky, on 17 February 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

supersloth, on 17 February 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

you are making my original point, in every one of those examples you are using code to MAKE art, but the code itself is not art.

So if you accept the art based on its content and not on its source - which it sounds like you're willing to do - then a piece of code which is indistinguishable from a Mondrian painting would be a piece of art, no?

(btw- yes, I am pulling your chain a little here...)

kind of? i mean, obviously it's a gray area, but it would really only be art if it wasn't created specifically to imitate another piece of art. the art itself would have be the means. i realize i'm doing a horrible job explaining this.

[jon.kiparsky]

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kind of? i mean, obviously it's a gray area, but it would really only be art if it wasn't created specifically to imitate another piece of art. the art itself would have be the means. i realize i'm doing a horrible job explaining this.

I'm not helping much, I'm afraid. But then, art doesn't help much. As far as I can tell, a thing is called art based on its intention and nothing more, which means that there's no real way to say "this is" or "this isn't art". If I'm thinking arty thoughts when I write a piece of code, we'd have to call it art - or not, depending.

But if the original post was art, I feel no compunctions about saying it was lousy art.

[CTphpnwb]

It did provoke at least a couple of dialogs. Isn't that what art is supposed to do?

[ishkabible]

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And that does happen when corporations take what's yours. When banks commit large scale fraud they've taken a lot of what's yours. None of it has been called criminal.

I would disagree, the people know these crimes are being committed but the powers that be keep declaring that they're not.

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what? All I said was theoretical constructs (like your contract) only matter when everyone plays along

You described 2 armed forces fighting over a disagreement; that's a war IMO.

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when someone stops playing it becomes worthless.

yes, and when the American colonists stopped playing a new country was born, that's the same with any community; if people won't work together then there is no community. people will group with other like minded people; disagreements simply result in independent communities.

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What if the masses say that your infringed rights do not matter and do not say CTphpnwb committed a crime? Man that would suck.

Yes, this is the issue with your peers deciding the out come(democracy), there is no protection for the minatory by default. I would try to place my self in a community where my rights were protected in the first place. If I was unlucky enough not to have that option, then ya, it would suck really bad.

anyways, I'm way off topic at this point; I'll stop.

This post has been edited by ishkabible: 17 February 2012 - 03:00 PM

[baavgai]

jon.kiparsky, on 17 February 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

So if you accept the art based on its content and not on its source

Ideally, this would be the case. You should be able to appreciate the work, regardless of who or what produced it. In practice, those who have the best PR seem to "win" in the art world. Sad, really.

The birth of Art ( with a capitol A ) in the Western world is the birth of capitalism and the end of theocracy. It is, in it's own way, a huge revolution. Prior to the Renaissance, it was fundamentally un-christian to take pride in the result of you efforts. Every right thinking artisan was supposed to believe his ability was a gift from God and hence sacrilegious to be prideful of. To such a way of thinking, all art has the same source.

[CTphpnwb]

ishkabible, on 17 February 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

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And that does happen when corporations take what's yours. When banks commit large scale fraud they've taken a lot of what's yours. None of it has been called criminal.

I would disagree, the people know these crimes are being committed but the powers that be keep declaring that they're not.

Yes, and the banks are the powers that be. So contrary to the "government is the problem, not the solution" spiel we've been handed, it's corporate greed that's the problem and the solution is to keep them from controlling the government.

[ishkabible]

The real crux here is the definition art. IMO, art is using any medium to convey a profound or interesting idea. So, per my definition, if the code uses(and thus conveys) a profound or interesting meaning it's definitely art.

[JohnPringle]

CTphpnwb, on 17 February 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

It did provoke at least a couple of dialogs. Isn't that what art is supposed to do?

totally agree

now where's that dancing banana

[wordswords]

We've got this book called "Beautiful Code" at work - http://search.oreill...=beautiful+code . I haven't read it yet, but it might be worth a look if you're interested in studying code that is particularly elegant or is good enough to have artistic merit.

I don't think the OP's code was very artistic, but it prompted an interesting discussion.

This post has been edited by wordswords: 20 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

[supersloth]

someone shitting on the sidewalk can provoke interesting discussion.

[no2pencil]

supersloth, on 21 February 2012 - 02:26 AM, said:

someone shitting on the sidewalk can provoke interesting discussion.

I can vouch for this.

Dog Fashion Disco had a tshirt that reads "Masturbate in Public & call it art". Though I couldn't quickly find a Google image, I believe my wife has this shirt. Imma check & post back.

[Choscura]

supersloth, on 17 February 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

i think i still have to disagree, that mimic's art, it isn't really art itself.

You sound like me when I talk about anime

Spoiler

I found one I like- Dr. Slump- but I still don't consider it to be art

In any case, whether there is code that is art or not (and I think there is some, but I also think it's very rare), I have noticed since I began writing it a few years back that first, my artistic efforts- the few that I have made in that time- have been more methodical and directed, and by any measure more successful, and at the same time my ability to think clearly has been greatly increased, and this is not limited to any specific subject. So whether you want to think of code as art or not, I'd say it's good practice for artists.

[CTphpnwb]

supersloth, on 21 February 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

someone shitting on the sidewalk can provoke interesting discussion.

Because that's performance art!

[jon.kiparsky]

I hear it's becoming a movement.