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#1 lukeme99  Icon User is offline

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Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:45 PM

Ok, you have probably heard these next few words, but... I would like to create a 3D game engine. But let's get something straight, I want to crete a simple, basic little engine that can open me up to possibilities. I would like to create something like the Quake Engine team fortress 1 ran on. I would really like a bsp based engine, as the best games - TF2, HL2 or even the haTed CoD - have run with bsp based maps.

I do know some C++, I can build basic cmd apps, and am working on a source engine mod, so if I get problems I will get my head down a fix it, unless it has me almost in tears and I want to blow up my computer, then I will post a question...

I am NOT asking for someone to hold my hand, and do my work for me, but I do want a bunch people that I know will get me out programming he'll, and will support me when I might loose my balance and fall.

So without further ado... Where shall I start? I really would like the people that have been through this to give me some pointers, tips, and warn me of common pitfalls! I am open to the entire communities suggestions, even if I am told to start with 2D basic sdl.


I hope you this thread gets noticed, and I thank you all in advance for any replies,
L99

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Replies To: Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

#2 Crockeo  Icon User is offline

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Re: Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:13 PM

Before anyone else posts with the normal 'Get REALLY good at programming first' response, I'd just like to say (as an aspiring game developer myself [but for me, in Java]), do some research.

To start you off, try researching the differences between DirectX and OpenGL.

Other than that, I'm willing to bet that the more experienced members could help you more.


Hope I helped!
~Crockeo
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#3 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:20 PM

In order to make a game engine you have to first make some games! If you can't do that, then no-one here can help you without holding your hand - and that isn't worth anybody's effort.

Make some games first. It will teach you a lot.
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#4 stayscrisp  Icon User is offline

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Re: Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:53 AM

Quote

To start you off, try researching the differences between DirectX and OpenGL.


Really? I think there are much more pressing issues than this to be honest. In fact a good game engine might abstract out to use both.

The OP needs to create some games first and see how stand alone games are structured and then identify the areas that could be reused when it comes to an engine.
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#5 blindstone  Icon User is offline

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Re: Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:41 AM

View Postlukeme99, on 01 May 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I would like to create something like the Quake Engine team fortress 1 ran on. I would really like a bsp based engine, as the best games - TF2, HL2 or even the haTed CoD - have run with bsp based maps.


First ask yourself: What is a game engine. Before thinking of what it should do, thing about what it is as a whole. If that makes sense. One thing you probably already know is there is no one right answer for what an engine is.

View Postlukeme99, on 01 May 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I do know some C++, I can build basic cmd apps


Basic cmd programs compaired to a game engine... huge difference. One thing I'm curious about is why do you want to make a game engine opposed to using one that's already made? Not saying use one that's made already, but it's worth a look into depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

View Postlukeme99, on 01 May 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

So without further ado... Where shall I start? I really would like the people that have been through this to give me some pointers, tips, and warn me of common pitfalls!


A 2D engine is much easier to create oppose to 3d. as previously mentioned you could look into the differences between openGL and DirectX. And yes there are some engines out there that use both. Something to think about first is what platform do you want it to work on. DirectX would lead to a windows only game (Or supported DX devices?)

If you want to do 3D there is quiet a bit more math involved I can say that from personalty experience.

Now more to your original question in a sense of structure, really depends on how robust you want the engine to work. Such as networking for a simple example. As previously stated you should make a few games to get the idea on how game programming works.

Structure for an engine (And like I said there is no one right answer) should atleast contain a few things such as:

Graphics
Input (Keyboard mouse controller etc.)
Sound (Bang boom bang!)
Networking(if you want)

VERY basic way to thing about things. Of course sub categories go into each of those.

So a real place to start - research.
Example for that (once again not a full list and its basic)
Graphics
-Draw/load models and worlds
-Way to animate models
-Collision Detection
-Back face culling
Audio
-Load and store music/sfx buffer data
-Play sounds with ability to control volume pan, (Emmiters)
Input
-Ways to detect Keyboard/mouse/controller/joystick (dependent on what you want available to people)

Essentially a game engine is just filled with ways to handle objects (in a sense)

Hope this helps. Be for warned however I am in no way a professional. Just hopfully that gets you thinking of how to start about things... also write things down first to get a sense then go from there!

Would also like to add all an engine is, is a bunch of reusable components essentially.

This post has been edited by blindstone: 02 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

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#6 lukeme99  Icon User is offline

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Re: Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:43 AM

View Postblindstone, on 02 May 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Hope this helps. Be for warned however I am in no way a professional. Just hopfully that gets you thinking of how to start about things... also write things down first to get a sense then go from there!

Would also like to add all an engine is, is a bunch of reusable components essentially.



Yes this was really helpful, but since I am boarding today and tomorrow, my resources are limited to a filtered internet connection, code blocks and dev-c++ (don't ask how i got them onto a school PC, thats another topic waiting to be posted...), but I will still be researching! I have already found the cubeengine, which I am trying to find a download link for so I can tear its insides apart. Earlier today I have attempted to get Quake 3 to compile, but the instalment I managed to get my hands on was messed up beyond a fix a could pull off. So I will just keep at it! I have recently discovered "Allegro" which I haven't yet managed to integrate with dev_c++ and I don't think attempting code-blocks would be to clever either! So my quest goes on.

Google is helping me dig through the pile of junk know as the internet, and I have yet to find a decent resource that has actually worked! But I wont give up! Thank you for all your contribs' so far!
L99
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#7 davidcatnc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Hey,

I'm a long time reader on these forums, mostly to pick up tips and tricks to help improve my own coding ability, but have not posted almost ever on these forums. Now It'st not my intention to be rude, mostly because I understand why many of these users become angry and often give short, unhelpful responses to the thousands of questions just like this one. The short answer to your question, is no one here or anywhere can help you find the information you are looking for.

The long answer delves a bit deeper into the problem that you, and many other people who want to create games or game engines will run into, you don't have the programming knowledge to even know where to correctly start. It's not as simple as having some programming knowledge, finding the right guide or book and then writing an game / game engine. Games not only run with a "game loop" as its often referred too, you must have knowledge of rendering, class structure, content management, and the list goes on.

If you really want to learn how to make a game engine, you should probably read some material first on creating games. You need to know how to make a game before you can make a game engine. Take it in small steps, creating even a game from a preexisting engine is a mountain of a task for even those who know the ins and outs of an engine very well. This is why games are usually created by huge teams over long periods of time.

I suggest looking up using something such as XNA to really learn and develop you skills further, while learning about game creation. There you can strengthen your programming skills, and learn all of the new information that is necessary. In all reality if you want to make a game engine you should probably have a few years of game programming experience under your belt. To put it in perspective, using say the UDK, which you should probably know about, to make a game I'd say a good 3 or four months of scripting and creation. Where only talking about a well developed simple platformer. Want to do your own art, add another 2 months of learning and another month of two of creation. Want to stray farther from the engine itself and do more scripting? add another month. We're talking almost half a year to even develop something like a "steam" game from an engine itself (this includes learning and research time, and time for school/jobs that bog us down.)

The point I'm trying to get across in the bloated message of a post, and hopefully to any newcommers that read this is that making games is a huge task, and the reason you aren't finding much information on them is because they are a huge undertaking. Its not just like creating a console application. It's really a lot of different programming aspects at play. This is why many people say learn to program first, games will come later, they really will.

TL:DR; Really want to get your feet wet, play around with XNA, or a pre-built engine first.
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#8 lukeme99  Icon User is offline

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Re: Serious Game Engine Creation Questions

Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:32 AM

View Postdavidcatnc, on 04 May 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

I suggest looking up using something such as XNA to really learn and develop you skills further, while learning about game creation. There you can strengthen your programming skills, and learn all of the new information that is necessary. In all reality if you want to make a game engine you should probably have a few years of game programming experience under your belt. To put it in perspective, using say the UDK, which you should probably know about, to make a game I'd say a good 3 or four months of scripting and creation. Where only talking about a well developed simple platformer. Want to do your own art, add another 2 months of learning and another month of two of creation. Want to stray farther from the engine itself and do more scripting? add another month. We're talking almost half a year to even develop something like a "steam" game from an engine itself (this includes learning and research time, and time for school/jobs that bog us down.)

The point I'm trying to get across in the bloated message of a post, and hopefully to any newcommers that read this is that making games is a huge task, and the reason you aren't finding much information on them is because they are a huge undertaking. Its not just like creating a console application. It's really a lot of different programming aspects at play. This is why many people say learn to program first, games will come later, they really will.

TL:DR; Really want to get your feet wet, play around with XNA, or a pre-built engine first.


Hi, thanks for the advice, but I do know how to develop using pre-built engines, I am a sort of source fanatic, I am developing a mod currently, so I know the ins and outs prety well of that engine, but one thing you should know, I wil NEVER use the UDK, I despise unreal! The closet I get to the unreal engine is playing killing floor, and I constantly complain about it.

But otherwise, your advice will be very helpful to me!
L99
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