The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

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28 Replies - 7178 Views - Last Post: 27 June 2012 - 06:24 PM

#16 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:26 PM

... well in that case I guess first strike is the best policy option then isn't it?
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#17 denting5  Icon User is offline

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:29 PM

Yes, but if all parties capable of doing so strike first, than they all will ultimately lose. Holding another Geneva convention to outlaw them would allow for universal benefit, but then it would be more profitable for someone to break from the treaty...I HATE YOU GAME THEORY!
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#18 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:33 PM

Working under the assumption these are "untraceable", why would they all lose if everyone has the option to first strike?
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#19 denting5  Icon User is offline

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:39 PM

Well, not lose. Maybe gain less? Okay. I will draw you a yield table.
Attack Don't Attack
Party 1 1 3
Party 2 3 2

As you can see, the situation here is equivalent to that in the prisoner's dilemma. It is always more profitable to be attacking than at peace.
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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:41 PM

Yeah.. but that's with the assumption you know who you are targeting...
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#21 denting5  Icon User is offline

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:45 PM

True. But if people don't know who they are targeting, doesn't everyone still lose because the code they wrote will ultimately attack them?
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#22 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:48 PM

I am unclear on who you are referring to in with your pronouns.. as I am unclear what meaning or value of "lose" as it keeps shifting.
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#23 denting5  Icon User is offline

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:50 PM

Yes but what I am trying to bring home is the point that when cyber war is used, everyone loses.
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#24 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:53 PM

I still don't see the internal links of that logic chain.
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#25 denting5  Icon User is offline

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:55 PM

OK...from the beginning...no one knows who they are attacking, or who is attacking them. Therefore, they must attack everyone to succeed, according to game theory. Everyone loses.
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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:59 PM

No.. that's pretty much a dis-proven fact. As people are keen to say stuxnet has a very directed target (for a virus).. hackers have directed targets.. it's just tracking back to them is the fault.
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#27 denting5  Icon User is offline

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 26 June 2012 - 03:03 PM

Stuxnet was designed for centrifuges, true. But it did this via a processor based attack. If someone had decided to remove the limiting overrides that stopped Stuxnet from attacking anything that lacked very specific firmware, if could easily have taken down a sizable chunk of the global economic system and the military-industrial complex.
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#28 Utael  Icon User is offline

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:36 PM

Not really anything in the form of weapontry or secrets have absolutly no lines of outside contact period. Our Mikes are on stand alone systems with power not even shared by a grid. There are no external ports and there are no updates need as when the software changes the hardware changes.

As for taking a cities street light system down you will only see it in movies. Most cities don't network their street systems for the very fact that the net is unstable. There are also backups in place for said purpose of if the net goes down it becomes a standalone analog system.
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#29 Atli  Icon User is offline

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Re: The Worlds Most Dangerous Open Source Weapon

Posted 27 June 2012 - 06:24 PM

View PostUtael, on 28 June 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

As for taking a cities street light system down you will only see it in movies. Most cities don't network their street systems for the very fact that the net is unstable.

That's not a problem. If they don't hook the street lights up to the net you simply hack in through the power lines. Easy!
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