New to programming, What direction to go?

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#1 ilosvi  Icon User is offline

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New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:36 PM

Hello, im kinda new to this forum, and looked around for a bit trying to find a good place to put this question. Hopefully this is the right spot. Let me not waste more of your time.

I have some questions over programming and game development;

1] I have a PC&MAC and want to develop iOS applications and Mac OS applications. I have been informed that this requires Objective C. What is the proper path to developing on the Apple systems? (ie, Python>>C>>C++>>ObejctiveC)

2] I also want to develop applications for Windows OS. This i believe runs of C++? What is the proper path towards developing software and games on the Microsoft Systems? (ie, vb>c>C++)

3] What programming languages do you recommend i learn (put a list if you may, short or long).

--

My resources:

I have background experience in information technology field, as a Computer Technician i am not short of Hardware/Software based experience, though you can never really have enough and problems are nearly infinite.

I have experience with HTML/CSS/SQL/BATCH, understand Binary/HEX, by that i mean that i dont just go to some random site and punch in the data, i can decipher it using a pencil and some paper.

Comptia A+ Certified, and have extensive knowledge of Windows OS and MAC OS.

Books: Principles of C++ - Bjarne Stroustrup (current @intro)

Please dont take this as me bragging, i only added this part so you can have a better understanding of where i am at. And so that i reduces the amount of time spent waiting for information that could have been there in the first place.

---

Sorry for taking up quite a bit of your time (if you read the whole thing). So if possible give me so ideas where to head down the path of programming.

Thank You.

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Replies To: New to programming, What direction to go?

#2 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:08 AM

Mac / iOS : objective C
Windows: I would suggest C#

there's also the Mono framework that lets you run C# apps on the Apple platforms, so that might be a direction to start in since it would let you build for both in one language.
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#3 BBeck  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 12:29 PM

For Windows games, I would also suggest C# with XNA. Then maybe learn C++ later. But I'm a huge fan of C#/XNA.

It really depends on your goals and what you're trying to accomplish. But C# is a good choice to start learning with. Visual Basic.Net is a little easier, but not much.
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#4 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 12:34 PM

VB.NET is another .NET language so it has basically all the same capability. But it is worthless in the learning path you describe.

If you learn C# you have a core understanding for the other C-based languages.

So I wouldn't recommend VB for your needs.
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#5 ilosvi  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:34 PM

Sounds like a plan. Considering what you guys said C# seems to be the most famous code to learn and the most universal. And yes I've seen many people using XNA, seems like something i could use. I've seen some very large environments developed with XNA and its amazing to say the least.


Currently i am working on a Video Game project, basically my duties are Concept Art/Design/3D Development, but i would like to take it a step further and learn programming as it will increase the output speed of our project.

So i guess my development path will be

C#>C++>?

What do you think about Assembly? I visited a forum based around it, and wanted to join but couldn't contribute a thing, nor did i understand since you have to be some sort ultra "1337hax0r" programmer.

I would like to learn assembly, any good?

I appreciate your feedback it quite helpful. Thank You!
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#6 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:35 PM

Thing is, before you start to even write code you should have some good theoretical foundations. For instance, for any programmer to be ready for programming I would expect them to understand:

1. Boolean Algebra
2. Manipulation of truth tables that is integral to the above.
3. Predicate and propositional logic.
4. Number systems.

Although an odd looking list it is the foundation of computer science that is essential to becoming a good programmer. Such a foundation will also help you better understand the material you are reading - it is not enough to just read, you must also understand.

As a bonus, particularly relevant to games I would also get your head around state machines.

Become well grounded in these topics and you will get out of being stuck in the loop of trying to learn the basics of learning programming and game development.

Good luck.
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#7 ilosvi  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:39 PM

cant find an edit button so:

Learning path C#>C++>Objective C ---i guess it allows me to learn the security features necessary since i believe i read somewhere that Objective C is terrible in security and proprietary software protection aspect and the best option is to make the security using C. I could be wrong.
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#8 ilosvi  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:50 PM

View PostButchDean, on 23 June 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

1. Boolean Algebra
2. Manipulation of truth tables that is integral to the above.
3. Predicate and propositional logic.
4. Number systems.

As a bonus, particularly relevant to games I would also get your head around state machines.


I did some reading, turns out state machines (dont quite fully understand them) are quite useful, according to the place i read from developers dont use them enough, thanks for the tip this is really good information.

Any books you recommend or websites to learn the theory and methodology of programming? or book(s) that include the listed items you mentioned?

Thanks
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#9 ilosvi  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 06:09 PM

Quick info addon:

I am currently working with the UDK environment, possibly in the future if things go well i will developing with UDK base code a varied version of UDK if permissible.

@ButchDean I read your blog, very interesting, i like the realism you added to it (then again thats how it is). I am not really looking forward to making this my profession but then again i dont know what will happen. My goal currently is to get into cyber security and network infrastructure. But coding has always attracted me for some reason.

XNA seems interesting but OpenGL? I dont know anything, but according to what ive seen, not many companies use OpenGL. But then again...
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#10 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:52 PM

Glad you enjoyed the blog. Am trying to think of another one that will be written to complement that entry.

OpenGL is still very much used out there, both in its trimmed down form for mobile devices (OpenGL ES) and its associated rich shader language (GLSL). The benefit it has is that it will teach you a lot more about the discrete states of the graphics pipeline that, as far as I know, is internally managed and abstracted away from the programmer in XNA. It all depends how deep you want your knowledge to be.
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#11 ilosvi  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostButchDean, on 23 June 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

It all depends how deep you want your knowledge to be.


About as deep as Marianas Trench. I would like to make this a hobby/possible income source, normally as with all my hobbies, if i like them i try to excel in them as far as possible.

I will look into what you have provided, since i would like to see at-least a "hello world".

On a side note, i looked around other forums and read what some "seasoned" user posted in regards to C# "Why C#? [...] its a basic scripting language, its slow as "sh*t". Now dont take this as me not believing your advice, to the contrary, none the less only time answers. Just posting a possible concern,

and on a second side note :) (i ask too much): Any other extra super duper spectacularly fantastic advice other than the already sufficiently provided?

I just need to know as much as possible before i jump head first.

Thanks.
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#12 darek9576  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:11 PM

C# is not a scripting language. It's not slow. Just dive in. You will give up after 2 weeks anyway.
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#13 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:13 PM

I agree - C# is not a scripting language.. managed code yes, but not scripting. It does seem to work damn nicely hand in hand with something like this Ex-In-Eh thing I keep hearing about.
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#14 ilosvi  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:31 PM

And if i may add one more thing

@ButchDean

A complimentary article to the already posted one would be something along the lines of a laymans terms. For some spectacular reason the more we learn the more we use the terms and methods of speech that are encompassed with our learning. In the PC tech world i sometime get too technical for people of other fields to understand and make anything of it.

The main problem why development teams dont accomplish things more efficiently is lack "lingo" translation. May i recommend something to better state my point (http://www.ted.com/talks/tal_golesworthy_how_i_repaired_my_own_heart.html).

A nice thing to have is a blog where the unnecessarily complex can be simplified for anyone to understand, now i know this is a daunting task but a rather rewarding one, it saves time, questions, and wasted resources.

Take for example Schrodinger's cat, in its rather mathematical and philosophical description it can confuse people who are trying to learn, people who might not have the same capacity as others, but want to advance, this barrier can cause them to loose interest thus causing a chain reaction of people loosing interest in advancing. “Everybody is a genius. But, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid” – Albert Einstein.

At the end Schroddinger was just trying to point out one thing: Our existence has an effect which we dont know on other things in the universe. There is a chance of things happening, and then again a chance of things not happening, but there is never a way to be certain (atleast not at the current moment).

Ive read countless scientific journal websites and news resources and have come to the conclusion that they love to copy and paste just for 2 reasons: 1] look good and appear intelligent, 2] generate some new content. To tell you the truth to this day i have seen very few blogs that when using scientific information or very technical data are able to make it understandable for a broad audience, while still keeping the integrity of the information.

It will help many people, and will answer many of their questions, i know from experience.

But thats just what i think, like always i might be wrong.

summarized version of my random mumbling: Would be a marvelous addition to your blog that you would create blogs entries which could benefit not just people in the same field but others alike, keeping the integrity of the information while still keeping it easy to understand (maintaining the realism of how you present things). You can add a few words here and there to get the brain stimulated by making people do effort that teaches creating "neural" activity (see what i did there? :b ).

have a good one and many thanks.

--note this is in no way saying your blog was hard to understand, to the contrary i enjoyed the realism of the information and the way it was presented.
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#15 ilosvi  Icon User is offline

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Re: New to programming, What direction to go?

Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:36 PM

View Postdarek9576, on 24 June 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

C# is not a scripting language. It's not slow. Just dive in. You will give up after 2 weeks anyway.

lulz, well, who knows. But why do you say 2 weeks? Any particular reason?

View Postmodi123_1, on 24 June 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

I agree - C# is not a scripting language.. managed code yes, but not scripting. It does seem to work damn nicely hand in hand with something like this Ex-In-Eh thing I keep hearing about.


Not sure if i sense sarcasm in that :). Ex-In-Eh? i have the feeling this is somesort of insider? Could you expand on this?
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