Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

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37 Replies - 4369 Views - Last Post: 06 July 2012 - 07:19 PM

#1 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:31 PM

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"My first offense, and they gave me all this time," Now 20 years old, he was sentenced to 1,941 months - almost 162 years - in prison without the possibility of parole.


Wow, that does seem harsh. I wonder what he did.

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Davis was convicted of participating in a string of armed robberies in the Miami area in 2010.


*facepalm*

What is sad to me is that his argument is 'this was my first offense'. Does this idiot really need to be told he should commit a string of robberies? Me? I'm glad this nit-wit is off the street. The true crime is that rather than being on assisted living, he's eating tax dollars in prison.

I mean seriously, what else is he going to make of his life if he's going a string of armed robberies at the age of 18.

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Replies To: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

#2 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:12 PM

you legitimately don't think a lifetime in jail is a little cruel for a string of stupid mistakes at 18?
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#3 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:29 PM

The judgement is a bit much.

Legitimately his excuse that his 'first time' only implies he has no intention of changing. He'll be back in jail or dead by 22. The truth is, he's already thrown his life away. Eventually he'll be re-evaluated & let out.
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#4 creativecoding  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:34 PM

I wouldn't see a problem with giving him something like 50 years. I doubt he'd be robbing many banks when he's a senior citizen. Heck, it'd be a worse punishment than what he has now. In prison he has free healthcare, free housing, and free food. All he has to do is dodge a few shanks. Once he gets put out in the street when he's 60-something, he'll lose all of that. He'll have no friends. No parents. Maybe some relatives, but how will he ever find them? He'd have to survive in a world he hasn't been a part of for 50 years. Heck, he wasn't even an adult when he went into prison.

This post has been edited by creativecoding: 03 July 2012 - 07:40 PM

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#5 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:09 PM

It's a tricky question. Can you really say that someone at 18 is who they'll be forever? And is there anything that you can do or they can do to change that? Is there anything you can do to get them to do something that will change that? And if we can make someone change, or make someone want to change themselves, are we justified in doing so?
In ther words, what do we do with a person who we know to be a criminal today?

These are old questions, and there aren't any convincing answers - even if you're convinced in your answers, you will find that it's difficult to make a case that convinces someone else, and that's not because they're stupid or morally retrograde.
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#6 Choscura  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:19 PM

Without rambling too much about this, it seems like a more realistic solution to this shit-wit would be an education and some kind of neurological rehabilitation... I mean, when you see things like the lack of pre-frontal cortical impulse control in the general population and compare that with prison populations, the guys in the clink are all on one end of the graph, and that seems like an obvious thing to try to fix. (easier to understand: "normal people have self control, people who end up in prison don't").
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#7 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:23 PM

View PostChoscura, on 03 July 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Without rambling too much about this, it seems like a more realistic solution to this shit-wit would be an education and some kind of neurological rehabilitation... I mean, when you see things like the lack of pre-frontal cortical impulse control in the general population and compare that with prison populations, the guys in the clink are all on one end of the graph, and that seems like an obvious thing to try to fix. (easier to understand: "normal people have self control, people who end up in prison don't").


Realistic? I don't think so, not even vaguely. There's a host of problems with this, including practical ones (we don't actually have techniques to do the things you're talking about) and other practical ones (the amount of money you want to spend on treating prisoners is not nearly equal to the sort of thing you're proposing, given the rate at which our society turns out criminals) and ethical ones (what we allow ourselves to inflict on prisoners is sharply limited, for most people, by the same conscience we wish those prisoners would exercise).

There's also some questionable assumptions about "pre-cortical impulse control". Specifically, your assertion:

Quote

normal people have self control, people who end up in prison don't


doesn't work any way you look at it, unless you define "self control" as some capacity possessed only by those who died without ever going to prison. It may be true that many people who go to jail have some diagnosable lack of self control (which would have to be characterized independently of the populations you're discussing) but it's pretty obvious that plenty of people who go to prison are completely possessed of self-control, and plenty of people who lack self-control to a great degree who manage by various means to avoid prison (I'm thinking of a particular French politician, for example)

The first thing you have to accept in discussing a question like this is that simple feel-good answers simply don't work. If they did, we wouldn't have to talk about this question, because it would have been solved. So we have to start by taking any simple answer and putting it aside. It's been tried, and it's failed.
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#8 Choscura  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:40 PM

Oh goddamnit, now I'm going to have to ramble.

I'm short on time with this one, so I'll make it a fast ramble and come back with the sources I can find later, but basically I'm saying:

  • Educate these fucktards, because they're worth less than a bench-top CNC machine (~$400 USD) without an education, and paying for stupid people to stay stupid doesn't make sense
  • Take advantage of this newly created captive educated workforce to make it pay for itself, but in a smart way- let them make decisions about their work (eg, freelance) because they'll be better judges of their capacities and abilities than anybody else (ie, the Valve company structure, for dummies!)
  • Rehabilitate as much as is possible with existing accepted standard practices
  • Possibly(!) have opt-in experimental practices for rehabilitation, with intermittent assessments of progress compared with standard methods
  • Keep the absolutely uncurable fuckjobs locked up, or execute them (eg, serial killers, etc)
  • I cringed when I wrote the "normal people have self control/prisoners don't" thing, because it's a terrible generalization- but there are some things I've seen (evidence to be presented later) that links a lack of impulse control to (for example) assault, rape, and murder. This is also correlated (to a lesser extent) with crimes like larceny and so on... it's not that it's as simple as this, and it's not that the lack of impulse control is the only factor (because that's correlated to other things- for example, being morbidly obese).... but it seems like an obvious stupid thing to try to control and fix if possible.


More later, unless I'm bored, lazy, or have poor impulse control.
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#9 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:11 PM

woah woah woah, the guy who got shipped off against his will to a foreign country as a form of intervention is lecturing about self control?
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#10 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:12 AM

Doomed by his name.Might have worked in Ancient Rome though. Could've been an Emperor.
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#11 Choscura  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:00 PM

A quick browse has brought up this, which links to this. Not what I remember seeing, but relevant.

One point I didn't make above and should have is that prisoners here can pay rent for private cells, with money they earn doing work (beyond the standard forced labor they're expected to complete here as part of their punishment). If you don't do this, you live in a communal cell- typically 20-40 people with a single toilet in the middle and a bucket of water to wipe with. This is certainly not ideal, but private cells are an investment to create and maintain, and are an inefficient use of space. Keeping groups together with bare-bones conditions (and I'm not saying Thai prisons are a role model in this, because clearly they're not, but something like a row of bunks with a cubby for each prisoner and one toilet and a sink) seems more efficient, both in the sense of motivating them to get out of the shitty conditions, and in the sense of better cost/benefit. If some form of restriction were placed on the outside help they can receive, so much the better.

@sloth, I'm not lecturing, I'm suggesting that looking for ways to improve this shit might be beneficial. If my 'intervention' had been an attempt to get me away from alcohol, the dumbest possible intervention would have been to send me to a country where the alcohol can be nearly as cheap as tap water.
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#12 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:12 PM

i have no idea WHY you were shipped out, i only know you were.
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#13 Choscura  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:19 PM

@sloth - The shortest version of the story is that I went to a party, got drunk (first time ever, first ever attempt, first ever exposure to alcohol beyond having a sip of my dad's beer or whatever), woke up in the hospital, and my Dad decided it was a sign that shit had to change- so I had the option of going to Thailand and helping my (Thai) (Christian missionary) uncle teach English for a year, in conjunction with a family of Korean missionaries, or going to Mexico and doing art school. I chose Thailand solely on the basis that it was further away.

The 'intervention' wasn't really so much that as a 'get off your ass' wake up call. I'd recently given up on / dropped out of a commercial college and was basically sitting on my ass at home full time, not really going anywhere, and making me go somewhere seemed like a convenient way to get me to go places. Very effective in terms of teaching life skills, but I'm pretty sure I'd never do this to my son.
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#14 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:43 PM

your dad sounds like a real douche.
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#15 ishkabible  Icon User is offline

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Re: Quartavious Davis cries "cruel" face of U.S. justice

Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:33 PM

Choscura's story had so much potential to end up like hangover 2...what gives?
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