[DarenR]

jon.kiparsky, on 27 August 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

DarenR, on 26 August 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

The way I see it, If you in your 20's, until you get some real life experience like marriage, kids, mortgage, car, job, etc just keep your mouth shut because you really haven't accomplished anything.

The way I see it, if you're in your forties and you think "marriage, kids, mortgage, car, job" are the things that constitute "life experience" you will never accomplish anything.
Sure, they're a part of life, but there's a lot more out there, and there's a lot of twenty year olds who have figured that out.

Well since there is a lot more out there in life can you explain what it is? Because as far as i can see working 60+ hours a week isnt living, whether it is having your own business or just workign for someone, there are better things to do with your life then working.

[jon.kiparsky]

DarenR, on 27 August 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Well since there is a lot more out there in life can you explain what it is? Because as far as i can see working 60+ hours a week isnt living, whether it is having your own business or just workign for someone, there are better things to do with your life then working.

Like the man said, if you have to ask, you ain't never gonna know.
And if you don't know which man, that's a good starting place.

[DarenR]

jon.kiparsky, on 27 August 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

DarenR, on 27 August 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Well since there is a lot more out there in life can you explain what it is? Because as far as i can see working 60+ hours a week isnt living, whether it is having your own business or just workign for someone, there are better things to do with your life then working.

Like the man said, if you have to ask, you ain't never gonna know.
And if you don't know which man, that's a good starting place.

wow that is almost like if the car is broke and you dont know how to fix it you will never know how to fix it--- almost as useless as a solar powered flashlight...

Quote

The fact is that some people like job assurance. These 20 somethings are like sharks and can smell your blood in the water from miles away. They know when someone is killing a company, and they'll take their chances to take them down. It says a lot about anyone's character when people are trying to throw you under a bus.

Perhaps it's time to reevaluate things from a less arrogant standpoint?

hmm just to clarify soemthign-- I have and will always train people without holding any information back...in fact i have been requested on many occasions by many 20's something year olds for training....It is the 20's something's who think they are programming gods that always try to throw people under the bus... no it is nothing like a shark in the water it is more like a shark in cards where they would sell their own mothers to look better....

This post has been edited by DarenR: 27 August 2012 - 07:02 AM

[jon.kiparsky]

DarenR, on 27 August 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

wow that is almost like if the car is broke and you dont know how to fix it you will never know how to fix it--- almost as useless as a solar powered flashlight...

I have a solar powered flashlight. When it's in the sun, the batteries are charging. When it's not in the sun, it's charged up and ready to dispense light. Pretty useful.

DarenR, on 27 August 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

It is the 20's something's who think they are programming gods that always try to throw people under the bus... no it is nothing like a shark in the water it is more like a shark in cards where they would sell their own mothers to look better....

So basically, bitter and jaded is pretty much how you roll? Sucks, mate.

[modi123_1]

Let's hope it is better than that sham-shake flashlight I got from geeks.com. *sigh*

[no2pencil]

I forgot about this one, but I was doing some onsite work at a place, & they must have said "Throw me under the bus" like 10 times in half an hour, mandatory. 2 years ago, I never really heard that expression, then on Kitchen Nightmares. Now anytime you fuck up, you blame your coworkers for throwing you under this bus. Dafaq?

[jon.kiparsky]

"geeks.com"? Try a hardware store...

[Lemur]

I'm 22, and I can smell it when there's someone who has no idea what they're talking about, and I will not hesitate to throw them under the bus if they have a bad attitude about it. When I say bad attitude, I mean someone who's a clockie ( "I'm only here to work, I don't care about learning anything else or playing with tech after hours" ) and has no passion towards what they do. Such people are like a vile cancer and need to be purged with the utmost urgency.

Allowing such people to stay quickly creates an agency problem where your workers are not performing to their potential. Instead, they are short-handing the company in favor of playing politics on company time and hazing the people actually getting things done.

Do you know what I do when I'm off work? I read. I study. I learn. While people like you are complacent about your skills and scoffing at people like me, we're growing in skill exponentially. If you don't understand the shark metaphor by now you're in some serious trouble, and you'll find one of us taking your job quite quickly.

My goal is to grow and further my skills in what I love doing, and I will not hesitate to expose people with impure motives that are corrupting people that have real potential. There's a large difference between someone that tries to improve themselves and someone who won't.

I had the attitude that I was the best, I know I did. That was last year, and I've since realized my mistakes in that aspect. I decided to change, I went out and found people better than me on DIC and various SoCal Mailing lists.

Now I can say with the utmost confidence that I know next to nothing about what I do, and that's just fine, it just means I have to keep working to get there.

Arrogance will be your downfall, and it will haunt you for the rest of your days until you decide to let go of your bitterness and hatred. It's your choice, but I've seen enough people hold on to those and destroy themselves. Don't feed the sharks, learn why they are as they are.

[h4nnib4l]

DarenR, on 26 August 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

The way I see it, If you in your 20's, until you get some real life experience like marriage, kids, mortgage, car, job, etc just keep your mouth shut because you really haven't accomplished anything.

That's a pretty awesome mentality. I'm in my 20's (29), and I have met some of your criteria for contribution: marriage, kids, car, and job, although I don't see how any of those (besides job) could be considered "contribution." I'm also a US Marine Corps combat veteran. I've been on every continent except Antarctica. I've been in three of the five oceans (not surprisingly, I'm missing the Arctic and Southern oceans). I've lived in enough states to have most of the regions covered. I've lived through stuff you probably can't imagine. And that was all before the marraige and kids. And I still don't know jack about life. Here's a fun fact: neither do you, we're all just students. Not every 20-something year old has done what I have, and neither has every 60 year old. Age can be a baseline indicator of experience, but it is certainly not the only way of gaining experience. I'd certainly higher a motivated 22 year old over a grumpy "old" guy who just gripes about the "youngsters."

EDIT: Toned down a tad, I've been spending too much time in the lounge.

This post has been edited by h4nnib4l: 30 August 2012 - 01:06 PM

[BenignDesign]

h4nnib4l, on 30 August 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

EDIT: Toned down a tad, I've been spending too much time in the lounge.

And we love you there.

[jon.kiparsky]

BenignDesign, on 31 August 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

h4nnib4l, on 30 August 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

EDIT: Toned down a tad, I've been spending too much time in the lounge.

And we love you there.

Awwww... group hug time!!!

[Lemur]

h4nnib4l, on 30 August 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

DarenR, on 26 August 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

The way I see it, If you in your 20's, until you get some real life experience like marriage, kids, mortgage, car, job, etc just keep your mouth shut because you really haven't accomplished anything.

That's a pretty awesome mentality. I'm in my 20's (29), and I have met some of your criteria for contribution: marriage, kids, car, and job, although I don't see how any of those (besides job) could be considered "contribution." I'm also a US Marine Corps combat veteran. I've been on every continent except Antarctica. I've been in three of the five oceans (not surprisingly, I'm missing the Arctic and Southern oceans). I've lived in enough states to have most of the regions covered. I've lived through stuff you probably can't imagine. And that was all before the marraige and kids. And I still don't know jack about life. Here's a fun fact: neither do you, we're all just students. Not every 20-something year old has done what I have, and neither has every 60 year old. Age can be a baseline indicator of experience, but it is certainly not the only way of gaining experience. I'd certainly higher a motivated 22 year old over a grumpy "old" guy who just gripes about the "youngsters."

EDIT: Toned down a tad, I've been spending too much time in the lounge.

Salutes for the service mate. Marines will always have my respect.

I would agree that really it all comes down to attitude. Bitterness and elitism may work in a good ol' boy system, but anywhere that has real skill present will quickly get rid of such a person.

[Skydiver]

Lemur, on 31 August 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

I would agree that really it all comes down to attitude. Bitterness and elitism may work in a good ol' boy system, but anywhere that has real skill present will quickly get rid of such a person.

I guess I'm getting cynical but I keep on hoping that this will be true for governments and political entities. So far I've been disappointed. Yes, occasionally the bright shining star comes along that seems to be hope for the future, but like many revolutions in the past, all it does is replace one set of good ol' boys with a new set of good ol' boys.

I keep hoping, though.

[Lemur]

Skydiver, on 02 September 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Lemur, on 31 August 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

I would agree that really it all comes down to attitude. Bitterness and elitism may work in a good ol' boy system, but anywhere that has real skill present will quickly get rid of such a person.

I guess I'm getting cynical but I keep on hoping that this will be true for governments and political entities. So far I've been disappointed. Yes, occasionally the bright shining star comes along that seems to be hope for the future, but like many revolutions in the past, all it does is replace one set of good ol' boys with a new set of good ol' boys.

I keep hoping, though.

Perhaps I'm a dreamer, but I find hope somehow.

I fancy myself a visionary, and I hope to never lose that. I still believe in passion, and doing what I truly love to do. Perhaps I'm a pilgrim in an unholy land, but I still have faith that I can change things if I remain true to what I love.

Naive, perhaps, but sometimes that's what's needed to truly inspire change.

[turboscrew]

h4nnib4l, on 30 August 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

DarenR, on 26 August 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

The way I see it, If you in your 20's, until you get some real life experience like marriage, kids, mortgage, car, job, etc just keep your mouth shut because you really haven't accomplished anything.

That's a pretty awesome mentality. I'm in my 20's (29), and I have met some of your criteria for contribution: marriage, kids, car, and job, although I don't see how any of those (besides job) could be considered "contribution." I'm also a US Marine Corps combat veteran. I've been on every continent except Antarctica. I've been in three of the five oceans (not surprisingly, I'm missing the Arctic and Southern oceans). I've lived in enough states to have most of the regions covered. I've lived through stuff you probably can't imagine. And that was all before the marraige and kids. And I still don't know jack about life. Here's a fun fact: neither do you, we're all just students. Not every 20-something year old has done what I have, and neither has every 60 year old. Age can be a baseline indicator of experience, but it is certainly not the only way of gaining experience. I'd certainly higher a motivated 22 year old over a grumpy "old" guy who just gripes about the "youngsters."

EDIT: Toned down a tad, I've been spending too much time in the lounge.

I know some people over 60 that has maturity level well below an average 20 year-old.
(I'm almost 50.)

The truth is still that younger people still TEND to be more short sighted, and these days ignorant. It seems that a new music video is much more important than world economics that is about to take their jobs.

Maybe it's just growing in a society of easiness. It's easier to believe or guess than to find out.

[edit]
Oops, forgot the beef (that's what dementia does... )

I find most irritating that terms get taken in to common language with the meaning smashed into pieces.

That happens when certain kind of people try to sound smart and use terms that they really don't even know the meaning of. They do it, because they count on the fact that the next guy doesn't know either. So the term usage spreads and soon it's in the common language with meaning that doesn't even remotely correlate to the original meaning.

That makes some discussions really hard, when people think they know what you say when you use the term in its original meaning. You have to. There is no alternative.

How many people, you think, knows what the word "system" means? How about "cybernetics" (especially the "cyber"-prefix)?
For most people "system" seems to mean "something complicated" and "Cybernetics" "something to do with computers".

This post has been edited by turboscrew: 04 September 2012 - 07:05 AM