Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

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41 Replies - 8717 Views - Last Post: 17 September 2012 - 07:02 PM Rate Topic: -----

#31 charles314  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:39 AM

Simown, to be truly clever and void your challenge would be by the mastery of ignoring it all together. So, no, I am not voiding your challenge. But, if I were a computer, I certainly would not understand your code, as a human I might. But is this a challenge for a 'circle sort of peers'? Or, could it have been done in such a way that includes all neophytes of Python -however gradioso their claims of 'Python Mastery' might be. Once again, programs only understand things the way they are programmed. Humans understand due to whatever other factors might be involved. I am looking at what was said, looking at the literature of Python, and making an educated guess. Programming is a logical thing. Humans, not so much. Besides, I am just a student and have no mastery or expertise in any language.

I just looked at the material and other challenges, and most things on this site seem like a rather insane stroking of peer inuendo's and nothing that is helpful to the public at large.

My last question, once again, how in the heck do you edit these posts -or is that a secret only granted to a privy few?

Thanks once again Simown, oh, and that J-Z song, as a programmer, how could you refer to such ignorance?
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#32 Simown  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:01 AM

Computers don't understand a thing - they do what we tell them, and only that. The aim of this challenge is not to produce readable code but to produce code with some limitation set on it. I don't even know if the solutions are correct yet, until I judge them. Think of it as a black box:

unsorted list --> CODE --> sorted list

Now this code is logically correct, I don't even need to know how it does it.

To edit these posts you need to be a member for a longer period; it's just to prevent newer members for removing their requests for help. It's slightly unfair to some, but overall a reasonable solution.

The one in my signature? If you've heard the song or read the lyrics you probably know those aren't the words. Also, it's funny (to me) because it has a double meaning. Firstly it's attributed (probably wrongly) to Lt. Cdr. Geordi La Forge from Star Trek referring to a breach of the spaceship's hull. Second, a well known problem in computer science is the "Convex Hull" which may cause problems of it's own. Referring to ignorance? No. It's not aimed at anyone.
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#33 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 16 September 2012 - 05:52 PM

I once had an English teach that would require assignments only be in present tense, and never use "I" or the verb "to be." It wasn't just a challenge, it forced you to reexamine that which you'd taken for granted.

A programming "challenge" is rarely about real world application. More often than not, it's about using a language in non standard way. Often, such approaches are technically worthless or at least questionable. The point is overcoming the obstacle, however absurd.

I've been thinking about the entry level challenge idea. I can't imagine that sorting isn't entry level, since it's usually what comes after the introduction of arrays in any curriculum... Still, throw something out there and tell any "experts" to stay away. I mean, we like to play, but if being spectators opens the field for others to join in, I'd happily stay on the side lines.
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#34 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:47 PM

The expert/novice conundrum is a tough one, but only because the entries are visible to all as they come in. We're all told constantly not to re-invent the wheel - if I see that someone I know is a very good programmer has implemented a mergesort in the terms of the challenge, I don't see a lot of point in adding a worse one to the pile.

I think maybe there's two sorts of things here. One is a challenge, where the idea is to try to get each person to write an entry, and determine which entries are the most awesome, one various scales of awesome.
The other is a sort of "code jam" where we're taking on a constraint and trying to make, collaboratively, the most awesome piece of code that meets that constraint.
I think both sound like fun, frankly.
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#35 Simown  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:09 AM

Not accepting any more entries now. Thanks to those who entered and good luck! I will be testing and timing solutions shortly, and get back to you with results.
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#36 atraub  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:32 AM

Did someone clone Swampie?

EDIT:
awww... I just had a fun idea for this one :-\ If I get time, I might submit it as a "hey this isn't an entry, but looky looky!"

This post has been edited by atraub: 17 September 2012 - 06:39 AM

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#37 macosxnerd101  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:22 AM

charles314- I have removed your last post as it was off-topic. A challenge thread is not a place to try and start an argument. If you have concerns, please shoot me a PM. Keep in mind that being downvoted for incorrect information or just being generally off-topic is not against the rules.

Also, just a general notice- I have removed the off-topic posts regarding charles314's off-topic arguing.
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#38 Simown  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:31 AM

This is a challenge thread, the discussion was never really on topic for a while. I'm going to close it now. Check back later for results!
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#39 Simown  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:25 PM

And the winner is: jon.kiparsky! With his implementation of radix sort, in a very very close competition.

Gaining the prize for the most creative solution is baavgai with his popping and swapping bubble sort

And amazingly well done to sepp2k, the only other entrant in this competition, providing the most solutions out of anyone (and the most languages).

You'll all receive shiny new "challenge" badges on your profile, when I work out how to do it.

I'll start a proper thread with challenge details in soon. Until next time! :)
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#40 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:35 PM

View PostSimown, on 17 September 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

And the winner is: jon.kiparsky! With his implementation of radix sort, in a very very close competition.



Really? I demand a recount! :)
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#41 Simown  Icon User is offline

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:41 PM

Really! There was hundredths of milliseconds in it, over 10000 random lists, you had the advantage of using at integer only sorting method, but only just!
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#42 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Sorting without Indices - Challenge!

Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:02 PM

Cool. Now I like radix even more - even though it's pretty useless for most of what we use sorting for.
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