[no2pencil]

jon.kiparsky, on 08 September 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Tom Sawyer lives.

That actually made me lol. My favorite was when he got his friends to plow the garden & charged them $1 per square. He placed a $2 coin or something, & the gamble was the dig. hehe.

[Charles86]

It needs to not be something that one can Google the answer to as well.

[jon.kiparsky]

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I can not spend money on this until it gets off the ground, because it would be a waste, as people have "good ideas" all the time.

What should I do?

If you really can't spend any money on this until it makes money, find someone who thinks this might make a dollar or two in the future. Work out how much money is required to get to that future, and convince them to invest in the project. Halfsies on the total company would probably be about fair.

Or do you think that programmers who can do what you need will work for free?

no2pencil, on 07 September 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

jon.kiparsky, on 08 September 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Tom Sawyer lives.

That actually made me lol. My favorite was when he got his friends to plow the garden & charged them $1 per square. He placed a $2 coin or something, & the gamble was the dig. hehe.

I've never had the stones to try to pull off the dollar auction, but I'd love to try it some time. I just don't think I can run fast enough to get away, after the inevitable happens.

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 07 September 2012 - 10:04 PM

[macosxnerd101]

You have the following options as I see them:

• Make the test knowing it's crap.
  
• Learn some programming, which takes a lot of time and effort, and make a decent test.
  
• Hire someone to make a test.
  
• Forget the test and judge people based on the caliber of their work.
  
• Do nothing.

Pick your favorite one. And let's leave the comments about everyone else being turds at the door, please. This is a public forum. You may not like what everyone else has to say. In the words of your own rules- This is life, deal with it.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Charles86, on 08 September 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

And I can't simply ask for that since people will just lie.

Your example question is poor. In a file containing only PHP, the ending tag is not a requirement.
Isn't Minecraft written in Java? If so, why test people on basic PHP knowledge???

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I have terrible grammar and spelling. Not so much because of a lack of knowledge as much as for a lack of caring.

And that there, from your introduction, is very telling. A big red flag. No respect for the other person, the one who has to read said grammar and spelling.

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I can not spend money on this until it gets off the ground, because it would be a waste

"Remember that TIME is Money." -- Benjamin Franklin, Advice to a Young Tradesman, Written by an Old One

SO...you don't want to potentially waste your MONEY, but you want to people to potentially waste their TIME, which...is MONEY. How...paradoxical.

Well, maybe not paradoxical in your case. What it is is another indication of the lack of respect noted above. Very narcissistic.

/armchair psychiatry mode off

[trevster344]

If you want to make a test then go learn to code. It's truly not that difficult to pick up a book and start to learn. There's plenty of servers already up doing what you want to do, so I think you should rethink your policy on customers. Personally I'm a bit OCD when it comes to Servers, and Coding lol. I don't need anyone else doing the management or coding part cause I'll want it exactly the way I can do it.

This post has been edited by trevster344: 08 September 2012 - 09:09 AM

[Sergio Tapia]

Charles86, on 08 September 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

OK OK OK. look. I'm not asking for YOU to jump into MY big idea. What I am asking for is help with the work I am doing. And I am doing much of the work myself. I just want a LITTLE help.

If only there wasn't so much hostility from some people, I think we could all get along better. Realize that I cam in here with a positive attitude. You all made this a negative thing.

But lets start over...

Hi, I am Charlie. I want to make a test for minor code competency. NOT a know all that proves you are supper haxor GOD with the code. But just able to do BASIC things. It needs to be able to thwart people that would try to lie about knowing basic code. I can not spend money on this until it gets off the ground, because it would be a waste, as people have "good ideas" all the time.

What should I do?

You're using Java? Check here: http://bit.ly/NSxUE8

Next: Read, read and read some more - and finally pick and choose what questions/themes you feel are important and revelant to your project.

If you don't know how to to determine what is relevant, you have no business actually leading this hypothetical team.

This post has been edited by Sergio Tapia: 08 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

[Arceopteryx]

I'm not really that smart with things, and especially not at reading advanced English, at times, but it looks like to me, that what you need, has already been made.

Bukkit

EDIT: I also found this: Enjin

This post has been edited by Arceopteryx: 08 September 2012 - 01:20 PM

[Charles86]

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macosxnerd101:
You have the following options as I see them:
1: Make the test knowing it's crap.
2: Learn some programming, which takes a lot of time and effort, and make a decent test.
3: Hire someone to make a test.
4: Forget the test and judge people based on the caliber of their work.
5: Do nothing.

Thank you sir. This was actually useful information and positive criticism, and it actually dealt with my problem... rather than focus on completely irrelevant things like belittling my project. +1 for genuinely helping me out. I will probably chose a modified combination of 1: 2: and 4: as that seams like the best way to get what I want.

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macosxnerd101:
Pick your favorite one. And let's leave the comments about everyone else being turds at the door, please.

You asked nicely, I can hardly disagree with this. Thank you for being polite here.

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macosxnerd101:
This is a public forum. You may not like what everyone else has to say.

I don't have a problem with other peoples opinions, that's exactly what I came here for. But when help is offered by you, and is properly asked for by me, it's thoroughly rude to largely ignore and disregard the offer and my problem, only to focus on criticizing the project, for which I was not seeking input on. It's clear case of bait and switch, "help with code" became "criticize your project", and even the mods/admins jumped in on it. Absolutely unjust.

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macosxnerd101:
In the words of your own rules- This is life, deal with it.

My own rules? "That's life, deal with it" OK, So then... you people are also better than me? That's fair, you have earned it, but if you're better, some of you should act like it. And maybe give the comments that followed that text a read or two and take it to heart. Instead of taking it out of context.

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A bit further down in that rule:
The thing to realize here is that these people are trusted members. That is... we *KNOW* that they will never abuse power or be mean to you for no reason.

Apples and oranges from what I'm seeing here.

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The obvious reply:
"Well, your being rude and disrespectful. You have it coming"

This is fair, "Do onto others, what has been done to you." However, your side started it. I'm only biting back since I was pushed into a corner. I'm being bullied because some of you made the assumption that I am "like every one else", which is your misunderstanding. I did, after all, start this thread with a totally positive attitude, complete with a thank you. Only to be belittled and criticized almost immediately when it had nothing to do with my problem or question. How was I not supposed to be upset?

However, two wrongs truly do not make a right. If I could start over and take back what I said, I would. If not to be nicer to every one, then to at least possibly make myself a better person. So for fighting back, I apologize.

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Myself:
"And I can't simply ask for that since people will just lie."

JackOfAllTrades:
[House-Pic] "Everybody lies"

Yeah... exactly my point. However, "Everybody lies" != "No one tells the truth." Also, you can't lie through a properly built test, hence the need for one.

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JackOfAllTrades:
Your example question is poor. In a file containing only PHP, the ending tag is not a requirement.

Fair enough, well placed positive criticism. I *DID* come here exactly so I could get help with things like this.

That was also one question among many. Other questions have completely different formats and different things that they test for. Would taking the starting tag off be a better choice? Again, I am only looking for a "low bar" basic test, to weed out kids and griefers. It doesn't need to be a guru brain teaser.

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JackOfAllTrades:
Isn't Minecraft written in Java? If so, why test people on basic PHP knowledge???

Yes, of course, Minecraft is Java... and the site for our Minecraft server is PHP. Post number 1 "The languages are PHP for the website...".

If you must know details though, We need to do some simple integrating of bukkit into the website. But that's neither here nor there, I didn't come here to have my server ideas questioned or ridiculed, I mentioned them only out of courtesy for those wanting to know the bigger picture. What I did come here for was specific help crafting a basic test. Nothing else is relevant. (Aware that I brought it up, not you.)

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Myself:
"I have terrible grammar and spelling. Not so much because of a lack of knowledge as much as for a lack of caring."[/b][/u]

JackOfAllTrades:
And that there, from your introduction, is very telling. A big red flag. No respect for the other person, the one who has to read said grammar and spelling.

Not at all, I have plenty of respect... for those that don't criticize my writing or project for reasons of self gratification through making others feel bad.

When I say "terrible", I'm putting my self in the shoes of those that are needlessly bothered by stuff like this. To the average person, this is a non issue. So that statment was simply preemptive "FU" for the grammar Nazis. Admittedly not the most honorable way to do things. But if you were in my shoes, you would understand. It's really stupid and low when people castrate me for using "to" instead of "too", or "there" when I should have used "their", or Your vs you're. I think to myself "Both spellings make the same dam sound!!! Why does it bother you so much??" "The way I write is hardly illegible to the average person." "You don't need to take your inability to cope with your own OCD out on me."

Basically, like I also said in my introduction, If people can understand what I type, then I used the language well enough. There is no reason to blow a gasket over stupid childish things like minor grammar/spelling. Yet, the Nazis do all the time. (More so on technical forums like these.) If people need me to clarify something, ask me and I will, it's that simple. But people don't need to demonify me for obvious errors, like I just killed a dam kitten in front of a bunch of kids. It happens to me this way though. So my go to opening for the public is writing defensively.

In the end, truthfully, my statement really should read "...lack of caring [for really small stupid mistakes that don't actually matter because you knew exactly what I meant in the first place.]" I do actually try to be understanding to those that deserve it. It's not like I don't explain myself fully, or like I'm using l337 5P33|< or something. I shouldn't get crap for writing slightly poor, but I do ALL the time for some reason. So I get defensive.

But yeah, I guess this is not the fault of people here... YET. Sorry if the negativity towards crappy people offends you. Just know that if you don't fit the description of grammar Nazi, then I'm not talking about you.

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Myself:
"I can not spend money on this until it gets off the ground, because it would be a waste"

JackOfAllTrades
"Remember that TIME is Money." -- Benjamin Franklin, Advice to a Young Tradesman, Written by an Old One

SO...you don't want to potentially waste your MONEY, but you want to people to potentially waste their TIME, which...is MONEY. How...paradoxical.

Well, maybe not paradoxical in your case. What it is is another indication of the lack of respect noted above. Very narcissistic.

Yet another total misunderstanding. Time is money, absolutely... I am donating much time into this, and it's not always fun (e.g. this "friendly" forum), Or are you saying time is money, except for my time?

I'm not at all being paradoxical, or hypocritical. I have done TONS of my own actual hard work, and I will continue to do more. It's just too much for me and my friends that can't code 100%. So you may say, "Well it's your project, you have a biased opinion so your time doesn't really count", But that's not true at all. I'm not trying to drag anyone away from what they would rather be doing just to try and make them work on what I want, That would be selfish. I'm looking for people that *WANT* to help because they see what I have planed and think it would be fun and a worthy investment of their time, just like I do.

And if things get off the ground, I am more than willing to donate my own real money. I have $500 to drop into this as of right now... But as has been said, ideas are a dime a dozen, and ideas alone don't make a workable project. So buying a server, paying for coders, and otherwise "jumping the gun" without having a real plan, just to find out that it can't work, or is not popular, is a total waste. No matter who's time-money we are talking about wasting.

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trevster344
If you want to make a test then go learn to code. It's truly not that difficult to pick up a book and start to learn.

Thank you, I will take your advice under advisement. +1 for trying to help.

Quote

trevster344
There's plenty of servers already up doing what you want to do, so I think you should rethink your policy on customers.

The big problem with servers and getting members is that there are too many little pieces of trash that want to do nothing but screw up every thing they can. And if you visit any of those servers that "have better policies" 9 times out of 10 it's blatant lies. The admins just lord over people anyway, with no justice or honor involved.

Our server is going to be different. We are going to be extremely strict right from the start. And if that wards off people... that's fine. The only kind of people that are worth having around are generally the type of people that are dead set on being members enough to put up with the starting issues. The best server I have ever been on was like this. Almost never had any problems with grifers and a-holes. Generally, strict requirements only sway people that don't want to follow rules. The strict rules paradoxically won't apply to people that behave.

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trevster344
Personally I'm a bit OCD when it comes to Servers, and Coding lol. I don't need anyone else doing the management or coding part cause I'll want it exactly the way I can do it.

I don't see anything wrong with this. Makes perfect sense. I just can't do it all myself, I realize that. I can do a lot, and as long as I can keep control of every thing, I still think things will work out right. Of course, that doesn't mean anyone than ends up helping me is my slave that I only want to take orders. I expect that people that join will want to express their own ideas, and I'm 100% for that. It will be a sudo-democracy.

Thanks again. This input was welcome.

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Sergio Tapia:
You're using Java? Check here: http://bit.ly/NSxUE8

Ummm... sorry, I don't click shortened URL's. Give me something to Google instead and I'll give it a look. Thanks.

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Sergio Tapia:
If you don't know how to to determine what is relevant, you have no business actually leading this hypothetical team.

Though I do see where you are coming from, This statement is false.

(1) It's my project, others may join in if they want (getting people to want to join is my problem, and not part of this discussion). For example, if you could not determine what was relevant for, say, decorating your house. That doesn't mean others should get to choose for you, without you having the final say. Because It's still your house, it belongs to you and you can run it how you want, even if that way is wrong.

(2) A passing or failing grade on a properly built test can determine what is relevant and what is not. I may not be able to make the test, but I can make use of one.

(3) There are other things that need to be done besides just the code. "The boss" is still a job title after all. And there are other titles that are lest shunned as being a position for the arrogant. Such as "artist", "writer", "admin". etc.

(4) Knowing what needs to be done, and knowing how to do them, are two different things. When an employer seeks employees, he doesn't necessarily know how to do the job he needs done. If fact, more often times he doesn't. But that isn't what the boss is for.

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Arceopteryx:
I'm not really that smart with things, and especially not at reading advanced English, at times, but it looks like to me, that what you need, has already been made.

Bukkit

EDIT: I also found this: Enjin

Thanks for trying to help. Much respect for people that have English as a second language. I will try to explain this simply for you, if you would like to know.

My server runs bukkit already. What I need is staff to help make my game ideas playable. Most of the work I haven't done is programming work, I can do every thing else myself. So what I need is programmers. To do this I need to have a way to choose the good people from the bad. Because there are a lot of kids and jerks that would pretend to be good, just to cause problems. The people looking to cause problems usually can't code, though this is not always true. The kind of test I need does not need to be advanced. Even simple syntax errors would probably be good enough because dumb kids most likely can't even get past that. For the latter tests, I will most likely want to look at programming work done by that person. This test is just step one in the joining process.

Conclusion.
A big thank you to all the people that have honestly tried to help me. Much appreciated. Though most of this experience was much like being a homeless man getting fed for for free... By having the food shoved down your throat while the person "helping" laughs at your misfortune, as well as the fact that you are now choking... I still believe I managed to salvaged the answers I was looking for out of the garbage. If (admittedly, a big if) my project ever gets off the ground. You special individuals are certainly invited to come and play around.

[macosxnerd101]

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Quote

A bit further down in that rule:
The thing to realize here is that these people are trusted members. That is... we *KNOW* that they will never abuse power or be mean to you for no reason.

Apples and oranges from what I'm seeing here.

I went ahead and pulled the entirety of that commentary.

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The thing to realize here is that these people are trusted members. That is... we *KNOW* that they will never abuse power or be mean to you for no reason. If an elite member does something YOU THINK is bad, know that it is not griefing or trolling or anything like it. These people simply know what they should be doing, and know that you don't. It's very possible that these people are actually helping you. Even if it doesn't seem like it. Chances are that any attitude you sense is because elite members have to deal with a lot of crap regularly. It gets irritating.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that this is the attitude your website is portraying. You complain about it here from other senior members here, yet this is what you want to propagate. By your own logic:

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It's very possible that these people are actually helping you. Even if it doesn't seem like it.

I don't want to sit here and argue, but I think the overwhelming majority of advice presented regarding your project was pretty spot-on, even if you didn't like what was said or how it was presented. I wish you luck in your endeavors with this project.

[jon.kiparsky]

It's hopeless, mac. Hypocrites gonna hyp.

[Sergio Tapia]

Charles86, on 08 September 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Blah blah blah dumb post.

Your post is bad and you should feel bad. I'm not even going to into it, LOL.

[modi123_1]

Okay.. I am pulling the plug on this..