[ishkabible]

I have a class right now, CIS 300: Intro to data structures, where I have a lot more insight than most of the other students. I have already asked questions in class I think I should've waited until later to ask. I try to ask questions I may or may not already know the answer to that might be of importance to others in class, and questions about the assignment or something that was 'wrong' in an email later.

Another thing I've had to do is try to not prove I know more; it does no one any good except my ego. I've caught myself doing it once already.

On the upside, I don't know C# very well so I'm actually learning things about the language even if the concepts are not new.

my rules:
*if the answer will for sure help others, ask it regardless
*if the answer probably wont help others or might confuse some people or is in any way not related to the task at hand, ask after class
*if your question, even a little, hints they may have done something wrong, ask it after class. challenging someone is a sure way to piss them off.

that seems to help everyone the most.

This post has been edited by ishkabible: 10 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

[jon.kiparsky]

ishkabible, on 10 September 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

my rules:
*if the answer will for sure help others, ask it regardless
*if the answer probably wont help others or might confuse some people or is in any way not related to the task at hand, ask after class
*if your question, even a little, hints they may have done something wrong, ask it after class. challenging someone is a sure way to piss them off.

First two, I agree with. The third one suggests that you're used to working with terrible professors. Profs are human, they make mistakes. They want those mistakes cleared up. If you think they've made a mistake, you can be sure that one of you is wrong. If they're wrong, they want to fix that. If you're wrong, it's likely someone else is also wrong in the same way, so one of you should ask about it.

Here it is from the perspective of one professor. I haven't taken classes from him, but I've talked to him and I like him, and I think he's put it well here

Quote

What You Need To Know About Asking Me Questions
Many students shy away from asking questions. Sometimes they think it will make them look stupid. Often they think I will have a low opinion of them.

Exactly the opposite is true. I expect you to ask me questions. Asking me questions does not lower your grade. It does not indicate to me that you are ignorant. What it does tell me is that you are taking this work seriously. That's a very good thing.

When I first started learning about this field, I had a lot of questions. Each time I teach this course, I have a few more questions. Questions are good. If you don't ask questions, I worry that you are not really understanding this material.

Even if you think your question is "stupid", please ask it anyway. In the first place, I've never really been asked a stupid question. In the second place, my job is to answer your questions. You are paying good money for this course. You are entitled to get your questions answered, and I'm very happy to do this.

Finally, I guarantee you that if you ask a question in class, there will be several other students with the same question, and they will be so grateful to you for asking it. So don't be afraid. Many times I have found that it is the very best students in the class who ask the most questions.

[The_Programmer-]

Well, I knew that if I started this thread I would get a lot of people saying that correcting people is bad but how do you think they will learn that they made a mistake? And I didn't correct him all the time. I only did it on something that was REALLY wrong. And I wouldn't teach anyway: "People who don't know, teach; People who know don't teach."

Also, I said I am home-schooled so I don't get why people are saying that I shouldn't go up to the front of the class and correct the teacher.

This post has been edited by The_Programmer-: 10 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

[jon.kiparsky]

The_Programmer-, on 10 September 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

And I wouldn't teach anyway: "People who don't know, teach; People who know don't teach."

That's absurd, as well as insulting to a hell of a lot of extremely knowledgeable people who teach.Since I've done a lot of teaching myself, I'm going to go ahead and take offense at this, but I'm just the first in a long line.

Quote

Also, I said I am home-schooled

Have you mentioned your theory about knowing and teaching to your parents?

[no2pencil]

jon.kiparsky, on 10 September 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

The_Programmer-, on 10 September 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

And I wouldn't teach anyway: "People who don't know, teach; People who know don't teach."

That's absurd, as well as insulting to a hell of a lot of extremely knowledgeable people who teach.

I agree, but it's generally based on income. Those who can exist in the field will make more money. Those that can't cut-it become teachers.

The_Programmer-, on 10 September 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Also, I said I am home-schooled so I don't get why people are saying that I shouldn't go up to the front of the class and correct the teacher.

Because it makes you look like a pompous ass, & a snotty know-it-all. No one likes those traits in a person.

[modi123_1]

I would never think of crossing my TurboC++ teacher! He's my key to getting a good job recommendation letter with a cutting edge software shop!

[jon.kiparsky]

no2pencil, on 10 September 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

I agree, but it's generally based on income. Those who can exist in the field will make more money. Those that can't cut-it become teachers.

Comforting, I suppose, to think so, but wrong. I can point you to the whole CS department at UMass Boston, for a counterexample. There are part-time profs there (like Carl Offner, cited above) who spend most of their time in industry, and there are full profs who spent their time in industry and found they prefer teaching. I think there's one prof there who's pretty much been professoring most of his life, and even he's done fair bit of "real-world" work.

Looking at the wider world, I suppose it's likely that you're going to find some profs who don't know what they're doing, but the fact is that there are so many really good programmers who want to pursue research, schools have plenty of candidates to choose from. It's actually a lot easier to get a job as a programmer "in the field" than as a professor, and the network among academics is much more effective than among professionals, so if you're not so good, the word tends to get around. If you're not good enough to make it as a prof, you fail to industry, not the other way around.

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating: I seldom hear good students complaining about bad professors or good professors complaining about bad students.

The assumption you're making is that people act solely to maximize their financial return, but there are plenty of people who have more interesting motivations, for example job satisfaction. (the same sort of motivation that keeps me helping out "students" here for no pay at all)

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 10 September 2012 - 12:39 PM

[no2pencil]

jon.kiparsky, on 10 September 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Comforting, I suppose, to think so, but wrong.

I went to a garbage school, got a garbage degree, from teachers that were unemployable. This is hardly a black & white, right or wrong subject. Prove me wrong, I don't care. The statement still exists.

jon.kiparsky, on 10 September 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

The assumption you're making ...

Thank you for letting me know how I come up with my ideals. I'm glad that you know where I get my information, so I can just stop thinking for myself. My statement is from fact, & you are not able to change that. So quit trying.

[jon.kiparsky]

So what you're saying is that one case justifies the generalization?

[no2pencil]

I'm saying that it wouldn't be a generalization for absolutely no reason at all.

[jon.kiparsky]

no2pencil, on 10 September 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Thank you for letting me know how I come up with my ideals. I'm glad that you know where I get my information, so I can just stop thinking for myself. My statement is from fact, & you are not able to change that. So quit trying.

Oh, please. You justified your statement with recourse to bad economics. That's not a fact, it's a bad argument. Nothing to get up in a huff about.

[no2pencil]

Maybe you should teach his class too.

[jon.kiparsky]

no2pencil, on 10 September 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

I'm saying that it wouldn't be a generalization for absolutely no reason at all.

The statement that teachers are generally teachers because they "can't cut it in the field" is a bad generalization. It might be true in some cases - for example, at your school - but that doesn't mean it's true in general. And there are plenty of reasons to suppose that it's not true in general, and those reasons come as counter-examples (ie, facts) and simple rational thought (the generalization just doesn't make sense).

So your theory folds when you put weight on it. It happens. Build another one.

[modi123_1]

Actually... that would be pretty bad ass. Thursday Jon kicks in the door to classroom - stunner shades, trench coat, and well worn combat boots. Straight up Drillbit Taylor style... pulls off his glasses to grunt and say "I am from the internet and will be teaching your class today!".

Bam!

Minds blown, class won over, and destinies changed. Then every got ice cream and kids talked about the first few minutes being a sticky situation.

[jon.kiparsky]

no2pencil, on 10 September 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Maybe you should teach his class too.

I'd love to, but it's really hard to get a job as a teacher these days, so I have to work in industry.