[aloneprogrammer]

As the title says what about adding a forum for OS development....

This post has been edited by Curtis Rutland: 13 September 2012 - 07:58 AM
Reason for edit:: removed poll

[jon.kiparsky]

There's already a C forum...

[aloneprogrammer]

But in my ways it requires the specific forum because the os dev questions,snippets,tuts etc.... get mixed up.The topic related to OS development are different and shouldn't be mixed with other...

[modi123_1]

Honestly, there's not a lot of drive for it. If you want to carve out some space that's great, but it does boil down to trending... if no one is interested then a dusty sub forum with little to no activity isn't effective is it? What sort of ideas are you looking to accomplish and sort out?

[tlhIn`toq]

Such a nice way to put it.

My turn.

Because the development of an entire operating system is a pipe dream that lots of rookies think they can do because they don't know enough to know what they can and can't do. Its right up there with a first semester student wanting to develop artificial intelligence.

Can new OSes be created? Yes.
Can one person do it? Yes. But it will take so long as to be outdated before it is released.
Are the noobs that come here going to do it? No.

The simple fact is: Anyone that actually has enough skill, and enough knowledge about how computer work on a low enough level to create an operating system isn't going to come here to ask for advice.

[jon.kiparsky]

I could imagine a world in which there were enough people of various levels of skill with active interest in developing on existing operating systems to justify a separate forum for the topic.


I just don't think we live there.

[macosxnerd101]

Quote

The simple fact is: Anyone that actually has enough skill, and enough knowledge about how computer work on a low enough level to create an operating system isn't going to come here to ask for advice.

This was basically my response to the PM I received from the OP asking about this.

[modi123_1]

Heh.. Why does it sound like I am the good cop to tlhIn`toq's bad cop?

Spoiler

[Curtis Rutland]

I removed the poll from the question, because that's not the sort of thing that belongs here. Besides, nobody had voted in your favor anyway.

[jon.kiparsky]

tlhIn`toq, on 13 September 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

The simple fact is: Anyone that actually has enough skill, and enough knowledge about how computer work on a low enough level to create an operating system isn't going to come here to ask for advice.

This is bugging me a little. I agree that the forum should not happen, but I disagree about the reasons.

Two observations:
1. When Torvalds created linux, he didn't have the skill or the knowledge to create linux.
2. When Torvalds created linux, the first thing he did was to pass it around and get input from other programmers. When he did this, it wasn't even a toy kernel, it was a sketch.

If he'd waited until he had the skill and the knowledge to get started, there would be no linux, because he never would have had the skill or the knowledge. If he'd sprang forth from the womb blessed with the combined skills of Thompson, Richie, and Knuth, the project would still be too big for one person in one lifetime - especially since he'd have discovered girls at some point, which tends to blow your productivity.
And really, if he'd even thought he was trying to create an operating system when he started, he'd probably have given up and done something sensible instead.

It's true that people who are capable of building an OS from scratch aren't going to come here to ask for advice, but that's because for the most part they don't exist. But the only way I can see those people happening. or people developing the skills to work on operating systems at all, is by trying to do stuff they don't know how to do. "Try again. Fail again. Fail better."

The missing piece here is not the skill. What's missing here is the motivation. What is it that brings together the number of programmer hours required to make even a token attempt at an OS? It's a niche - one that you don't even notice until something arrives to fill it. I think that niche has been filled, and I don't see how it'll open up again. That doesn't mean it won't open up, but when it does we won't know it until the next thing arrives to fill it. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't try to build operating systems. Windmills are there for people to tilt at, and when you see a windmill you should have a go at it. The worst that happens is you fall down and sprain your dignity.

If I saw other forums - C forums, hardware forums, functional language forums - crowded with posts about creating operating systems, I'd say there was an interest in making a new forum, and I'd be all for it.

I don't, and there isn't, and I'm not. But it's not because people shouldn't try to build operating systems. It's because they're not trying to build operating systems.

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 13 September 2012 - 08:02 AM

[modi123_1]

.. and 'share your project' would be a great launch pad for the "pass the code to the left hand side" and get other folks input!

[jon.kiparsky]

modi123_1, on 13 September 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

.. and 'share your project' would be a great launch pad for the "pass the code to the left hand side" and get other folks input!

So when are we going to see those repos for DIC members, anyway?

[modi123_1]

Huh?

[Curtis Rutland]

Gotta say I'm with Jon on this one.

Actually, lots of CS programs have OS design classes as a requirement or an elective. Over the course of a semester, the class will design and implement a simple, basic OS (something that can handle I/O and execute some code, that runs at the level an OS normally does). So lots of average programmers will get some experience doing this. Their end result will not be practical, nor will they write the next Linux by themselves, but they will be capable of doing basic OS work.

Jon got it right: if our forums were being flooded with OS questions, we'd make an OS forum. They aren't, so we won't.

[jon.kiparsky]

modi123_1, on 13 September 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Huh?

Sorry, randomly dredged up an old conversation out of the back of my head, can't even remember what forum it was in, but it was a kick-around of ways to bump up participation on the site - it was a while back, I have no idea what brought it into my mind.