[BenignDesign]

Was skimming through the news today and came across this gem: link.

IKEA printed a catalog, right? They used this catalog all over the world. But in all the Saudi Arabian copies, the women disappeared - same pictures, all women photoshopped out.

Excuse me?

The article doesn't really give a full-on explanation as to why this was done... only a reference to Saudi TV where women are rarely shown and even then they are to be fully covered in a burka. I'm assuming the IKEA catalog didn't have page after page of repressed, submissive, burka-clad women in the original version.

I don't even know where to start! I've been sitting here for a solid ten minutes with my teeth clenched and nostrils flared! Don't give me that "respect different cultures" shit either. I'll respect their culture when they respect their women!

Many moons ago (2nd year of college-ish... circa 1997), I worked as a cashier at a big chain pharmacy. Our head pharmacist was a Saudi man. He would order the cashiers around like his personal little slave girls. I was ordered to don a white jacket and work in the pharmacy dispensing medications. Ever the stubborn mule that I still am today, I refused to do his bidding. He stood, stomped his foot, snapped his fingers, and full-on demanded that I do as I was told.

"You are a woman," he said. "You do not question me! I tell you do it, you do it. No argument. I am the man, it will be as I say!" It took every ounce of self-control I could muster not to spit on him.

Let's just say our work relationship was a little strained after that. I did eventually get pharmacy tech training (under a different pharmacist), but I never did submit to the will of "the man".

I'm honestly not sure if I have an actual point in all of this. I don't know if I'm angry about the IKEA issue because of my personal experience with this pharmacist. I don't know if I'm angry because what they've done is belittling and demeaning to women. I don't know if I'm angry because it seems their culture stopped evolving 500 years ago. I don't know if I'm angry because many Saudi women will never know how life could be - or should be - because they will forever be at the mercy of a misogynist culture. I don't know if this should be a live journal entry or a topic for DIC discussion (because I'm sure some asshole is going to come along and declare that women belong in the kitchen... making babies... making sammiches... blah blah blah... save your shit... heard it before... you're not amusing).

I just don't understand the reasons behind the sexism... not just in this instance, but sexism in general. Why? Just... why?

[modi123_1]

Just to be clear, here is an example the photos:




As for the 'why':

Quote

Ikea prints 208 million catalogs in 43 countries every year. They are all the same, except in Saudi Arabia, where women have been Photoshopped out because their photos "show too much skin," according to the Islamic Kingdom's laws. And it's not the only thing that gets altered.

A woman who is having dinner with her husband around a dinner table was completely removed, replaced by an empty table. Another one cleaning her teeth with her son, shown above, was eliminated. Even one of the Ikea employees presenting the catalog—Clara Gausch, one of the four designers—was erased with Photoshop. The other three designers are all there. They are all male.

The censorship is not only about women: wine glass gets translated to "festive glass" because you can't have alcohol in Saudi Arabia. Festive glasses are for Diet Coke only.

cite


Ikea shifts the buck to a franchise that prints the ads, but this has happened before:

Quote

But this it not the first time this has happened: another woman was deleted from a catalog in the early 90s because, even while she was dressed properly with pants and a long skirt, she was considered lazy. Her sin: she was lying down on a sofa, enjoying a book. According to Anne-Marie Colliander Lind, one of the translators for that catalog, only women performing chores like attending the stove or cleaning dishes were allowed. Anything else was considered a problem.

cite

[DarenR]

I would have paid to see you slug that guy...............

[adolf625]

It is the same with all bigotry, people are ignorant.

[BenignDesign]

modi123_1, on 01 October 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Quote

But this it not the first time this has happened: another woman was deleted from a catalog in the early 90s because, even while she was dressed properly with pants and a long skirt, she was considered lazy. Her sin: she was lying down on a sofa, enjoying a book. According to Anne-Marie Colliander Lind, one of the translators for that catalog, only women performing chores like attending the stove or cleaning dishes were allowed. Anything else was considered a problem.

cite

What fucking year is this again?!?! It makes me crazy! How is it that these women have not joined forces against the oppression? What is it that makes them continue to wear their burkas and put up with it?

[Kilorn]

Because if they say something, they are stoned to death. Unfortunately they are forced to deal with it.

[supersloth]

RELIGION

[Robin19]

What made women put up with the crap men gave them in the West for so long? The threat of torture/death if you stood up for yourself. Coming from both individuals and the government.

IKEA should have just published it's catalog and made SA make whatever changes they deemed "important". I see no reason why we need to bend over to pander to them when they can't do the same.

[adolf625]

supersloth, on 01 October 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

RELIGION

Yep that about sums it up

[modi123_1]

I am not convinced it is religion. Sexism appears rampant in nature as well.

Quote

"When we first decided to examine attitudes and behaviors toward gender roles among non-humans, we were wholly unprepared for what we would find," said Jennifer Tannen, leader of the UCSD research team, a joint venture between the school's zoology and women's studies departments. "Females living in the wild routinely fall victim to everything from stereotyping to exclusion from pack activities to sexual harassment."
Nowhere is the natural world's gender inequity more transparent, Tannen said, than in the unfair burden females assume for the rearing of offspring.

"Take the behavior of the ring-neck pheasant," Tannen said. "After mating, the male immediately abandons the hen, leaving her responsible for the total care for the chicks. For the single mother-to-be, there is no assistance, either in the form of a partner or child support. Nor is there any legal recourse. It's despicable."

Tannen said pheasants are typical of the natural world, where a mere 5 percent of animal species mate for life. Among species that do form lasting pairs, the situation barely improves: Females must remain close to the nest to incubate eggs, nurse, and keep watch over the burrow while males are free to go off hunting and fishing with their friends.

cite ha - the onion's topical

[BenignDesign]

Religion can suck a dick.

I've been in a manipulative, controlling, abusive relationship. I bore children to the ass. My religion at the time dictated that I had no choice except to tolerate whatever he dished out. But there comes a point when the hope of something better outweighs the fear of something worse. For me, anyway, there came a point where being stoned to death would have been a welcome alternative to resignation.

I've heard the stories of some these women. Their hell makes mine look like a picnic on a sunny day. I cannot imagine how empty and trapped and completely dead inside they must feel. And maybe it's only because I am strong-willed enough to risk the stoning, but I cannot imagine that so many simply stay.





[edit]@modi... the onion? really?[/edit]

[baavgai]

I wouldn't blame religion in particular. It is but one tool a society uses to enforces it's mores.

Also, I'm not blaming the pheasant, either. Anthropomorphizing birds?!? Scientists should know better. What about those poor male black widows? And don't get me started on sea horses. Please. Of course, 15% of seagulls are gay...

The situation is pathetic and sad, but every society seems to choose it's scapegoats. Of course, choosing the half of the population responsible for reproducing that population seems, ahem, counter productive.

[no2pencil]

modi123_1, on 01 October 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Just to be clear, here is an example the photos:




As for the 'why':

Quote

Ikea prints 208 million catalogs in 43 countries every year. They are all the same, except in Saudi Arabia, where women have been Photoshopped out because their photos "show too much skin," according to the Islamic Kingdom's laws. And it's not the only thing that gets altered.

So it's like the sears xmas catalog when I was 10. Is it safe to assume that's their maturity level?

Mmm, look at dem ankles!!!!

[AdamSpeight2008]

Pope => Crime Don & Head Pedo
How can you take these seriously? When they believe that the rings of Saturn is Jesus's foreskin.
Charity? Have you seen where the pope lives?
Give us money to ensure safe passage and protection. Protection racket scheme.


Organised Religion => Book Discussion Group with membership fee / Business
It's all about control, and control of access to information. Book burning? Spanish Inquisition? Holocaust?
Harry Potter any one? Lord of the Rings? Star Trek?

How much of our history have we lost? Thanks to religion. "Accidental" Burning of the library of Alexandria. Spanish Conquistadors


Jehovah's witness => Book Peddlers / Door 2 Door sales.
Why ain't they registered and CRB vetted like charity collections?

Why do religious people, have to state what religion they are? Why can't we have discussion as human beings.

If I mention that I hear someone talking to me (who doesn't have a physical manifestation) or only internally, than I would be considered a danger to myself and other people / society. Claim it was the Virgin Mary and I'm sane and God's tool.

Want an example of religious discord in programming, how do you format your code? and brackets and braces?

This post has been edited by AdamSpeight2008: 01 October 2012 - 12:41 PM

[Sergio Tapia]

supersloth, on 01 October 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

RELIGION

ISLAM