[DarenR]

So my latest assignment is to updated the main web page that potential customers see. It has over 40+ pages and they want it to look uniform across the board with a lot of verbage changes and style changes.. Easy enough right? Not so much. I wanted to create a master page so I could do the changes really quick but when I suggested this, I was told no way. So now I have to manually add a ton of elements to each page to make them look alike, ugh!...

My question to you is have you ever been given a project in which you could do super easy and fast but were told you were not allowed to do it that way?

[jimblumberg]

That's what you get for asking, next time make the changes without asking. Just make sure to make backups before beginning then you can always revert and start again in order to do it their way. Sometimes it's easier to apologize for a "mistake" than convince someone to adopt new technology.

Jim

[jon.kiparsky]

I think many managers have run into "the General Problem" (as xkcd puts it) often enough that they're wary of anyone who wants to make a change to the code that'll "make everything easier". That can be great, or it can turn into a tarpit, and if they don't have the technical skill to appraise that risk - or if they do and their appraisal says "danger!" - then they're going to tell you no.

In this case, what you're proposing amounts to a major overhaul of the site, when what was asked for was fundamentally cosmetic. If the site needs to be overhauled, you should propose that as its own project - after you implement the changes that are needed today.

[DarenR]

jon.kiparsky, on 04 October 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

I think many managers have run into "the General Problem" (as xkcd puts it) often enough that they're wary of anyone who wants to make a change to the code that'll "make everything easier". That can be great, or it can turn into a tarpit, and if they don't have the technical skill to appraise that risk - or if they do and their appraisal says "danger!" - then they're going to tell you no.

In this case, what you're proposing amounts to a major overhaul of the site, when what was asked for was fundamentally cosmetic. If the site needs to be overhauled, you should propose that as its own project - after you implement the changes that are needed today.

I actually did propose it as a project-- What I wanted to add was a master page to cover all the menu changes and layouts--- simple enough right? Not so much according to their eyes. Instead of tossing in a master page where I could have placed the borders they wanted, I had to put the borders on ever single page...The problem is that most of my coworkers do not have web experience and still do everything with "tables" instead of free flow div and span so suggesting an easier alternative was alien to them.--- oh well things will happen I guess...

[jon.kiparsky]

DarenR, on 04 October 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

I actually did propose it as a project-- What I wanted to add was a master page to cover all the menu changes and layouts--- simple enough right? Not so much according to their eyes. Instead of tossing in a master page where I could have placed the borders they wanted, I had to put the borders on ever single page...The problem is that most of my coworkers do not have web experience and still do everything with "tables" instead of free flow div and span so suggesting an easier alternative was alien to them.--- oh well things will happen I guess...

Yeah, I wish I could drop you into our repo for five minutes, just so I could watch the look on your face. We've got two independent style sheets covering two sections of the site, which create (almost) exactly the same look in two completely different ways - using the same class names for divs in most (but not all) cases.
This means that something like changing a font is a daylong project - anything more requires a change request and budgeting developer time.

That's just the css - the rest of the code is equally befuckled. I've put in the suggestion that an overhaul would save actual money, that was almost a year ago. We might get to that in the next year.

In other words, "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown".

[Lemur]

...you mean like your misuse of 'your' when it should be 'you're' in your title? I can't fix that. I want to, but I can't.


MOD EDIT: I took care of it. Drives me insane.

This post has been edited by JackOfAllTrades: 05 October 2012 - 06:46 AM

[fromTheSprawl]

Yeah, this feels really frustrating. I once suggested automatic calculation of the contents of a table so that the size of the table of would automatically adjust but I was told no. Now whenever I have to fix overflowing stuff I have to do it manually in a lot of pages and testing takes a whole amount of time. Zzz. We're peons, I tell you!

[DarenR]

Lemur, on 04 October 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

...you mean like your misuse of 'your' when it should be 'you're' in your title? I can't fix that. I want to, but I can't.

yeah but i was running out of characters so I ommitted some letters

[AdamSpeight2008]

If you are paid for a job to Wallpaper over the cracks in the wall, you wallpaper over the cracks in the wall. And take their money.

The time to discuss the what the job entails, was during contract negotiations and suitable remuneration is.

[lordofduct]

Not if he's a fulltime player, there is no contract negotiation per job when you're a salary/hourly employee.

Instead the project usually has an approval process before starting, and that would have been the time to talk about it.

[DarenR]

Yeah im salary----though there was no project talk about this until i brought up the master page... this so called site was already prebuilt by an old employee so I am guessing the reason they didn't want to change it was because they don't know what a master page is or what it does.

[jon.kiparsky]

DarenR, on 05 October 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Yeah im salary----though there was no project talk about this until i brought up the master page... this so called site was already prebuilt by an old employee so I am guessing the reason they didn't want to change it was because they don't know what a master page is or what it does.

Or else they understand that change is a risk.

[AdamSpeight2008]

The current method works so why change it?
What perceived benefits are there for the paying customer?

[lordofduct]

Don't assume why they do something... learn why they do something.

What jon and adam are bringing up is a valid assumption, just as yours is. But you keep throwing their assumptions aside for your own, while offering no evidence for why your assumption would be more rational.

When maintaining code (because this is maintenance, NOT design) proper design is not the ONLY key player. You have to work within the boundaries of the existing system.

Why does Windows 7 still support so many archaic models that most techies know are crap and need to go... yet Microsoft holds onto them year after year.

Why do people still use Windows XP, despite the fact that it's 12 years old.

They don't care that it's better... they care that what they have just WORKS.