[derrellgore]

First of all this is not a MAC vs PC question. That has been done enough.

I have always been a pc person...but I am toying with the idea to get a MAC.

Just from reading I know it has XCODE and you can create COCOA IOS apps using Objectice C.

I enjoy creating desktop apps. My question is how does XCODE/COCOA compare to VISUAL STUDIIO and to go one step further is the environment similar to WINFORMS as far as creating desktop apps. Is the default set of controls comparable.

Another question is is can you sell desktop apps anywhere like you can the IOS apps.

Also what other options do you have besides XCODE...for instance how does JAVE/Netbeans perform on the Mac vs the pc?

[derrellgore]

Well, obviously this wasn't a popular subject.....thanks for no input....I finally lost the urge to go Mac and built myself a new PC.

Thanks

[BenignDesign]

Not to add more piss to your Wheaties, but perhaps none of our regulars have experience with this particular item. Perhaps this is an area that could use an expert - and you could have been that expert - if you had bought the machine, done the work, and posted your findings versus waiting for an internet forum full of strangers to make a decision on your behalf. Just my two cents.

[no2pencil]

Or perhaps the Software Development subforum doesn't get as much attention as a more accurate subforum such as Computer Support -> Software Support -> Linux, Unix, OSx, which is where I would have put it.

Also it's a commonly asked question. Did you search prior to posting?

[lordofduct]

I hate XCode. I've played with it multiple times at different people's requests and it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Anyways it has a gui authoring tool, like visual studio does for both WPF and WinForms. Of course it follows its own design principal, and it's not all bad. It's got tons of controls, not all the same though... osx has it's own design principals so it lacks controls that we find normal in Windows, but has controls that are normal to OSX.

The language of objective-c is kind of meh imo. Some people like it, I don't.

The IDE itself though just drives me mad. You'll have to get your personal experience with it to make a final choice... but my personal bias screams whenever I use it. It acts and feels like most other applications in OSX, and I HATE the OSX user experience... it's just not my thing, it feels childish, like I can break it at any moment. But if you like the design principals of crap like iTunes and the sort... well you might like it.



As for alternatives.

Java - yes there is eclipse and netbeans for OSX. And Java itself runs just fine on OSX. The official Mac Java runtime is usually a couple versions behind (Mac maintains a branch of it), but you can always get the latest direct from Oracle. Netbeans and eclipse look and act the same way they do in linux and windows... the makers of said software don't change a whole lot between them... maybe a couple menu entries are in slightly different places.

Mono - mono is the open-source implementation of .Net. If you like .Net dev, and .Net languages (primarily C# as the VB support is kind of lacking), mono is available. MonoDevelop is the IDE to help writing mono projects easy. It uses GTK# as the gui engine, and it's similarish to WinForms. Good thing about mono projects is that they'll run on all the modern popular operating systems, including windows.


Others - you can write your code in just about any editor you want... include textpad, textmate, whatever that call that thing. There's all sorts of IDEs out there, some proprietary, some open-source, google around. And there are other languages... you can of course write your lower level languages like C/C++ and the sort, and lower (assembly...). There are all your scripting languages like Actionscript, javascript, etc. And your other server languages like python, PHP, Ruby, etc.

OSX really has the same stuff available to you. You just have to hunt it down and learn about it. And select the right tool for the job you have at hand.

Now if you want to write iOS apps... now that's a different story. It is extremely limited on what you can write your programs in.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 22 October 2012 - 07:18 AM

[derrellgore]

Actually it was the lack of support which nailed the coffin on the Mac. I spent hours looking around the net and there is very little information available on Mac programming...you would think with all the apps being created for the IPAD and iphone there were be a wealth of information out there. ALso very few books on the subject.

I was looking for similar sites to this one and CODE PROJECT and they don't seem to exist.

[macosxnerd101]

I think the problem is that you are searching for general terms. If you narrow your search to a particular language or environment, you'll probably get better results. For example, searching xcode reviews returned decent results. Searching xcode vs. visual studio returned more specific results, like this one, which will probably be of interest for you.

[derrellgore]

What got me started was I visited an Apple store for the first time and also first time I have seen a Mac since the 80's...the eye candy on the Imac was cool on initial viewing. But like I said I got over it. Came to the realization that that was exactly what the Apple store was for. Also realized I could spend the same amount of money on pc parts and build one hell of a computer.


I think I am going to turn my old computer into a Linux computer and play with that for awhile. Now just to pick a flavor or flavors...really have no limits there as far as what I can explore.

[lordofduct]

Many iOS developers are very competitive, and aren't that share friendly as I hoped.

As for OSX dev, there's forums out there, even on Mac's website, and on MacRumors. Thing is they're usually sub-forums of forums that serve more general purposes.

For instance we have a sub-forum for it... we're not completely windows centric here, we're programming centric, OSX included. Go check out our OSX sub-forum. (I'll admit it's not the most active section, but it's got activity... and it won't become active until people like YOU join it).

Mac, though large, isn't the majority of computer users, nor is it the majority of programmers. You're probably not going to find a ton of forums dedicated specifically to Mac dev. To attract the user base, they cater to both the devs and the users.

[derrellgore]

Actually I was searching for code snippets and examples more than anything...nada.

[macosxnerd101]

I Googled objective-c code snippets and got a lot of results.

[lordofduct]

I'm sorry, but with statements like:

Quote

Also realized I could spend the same amount of money on pc parts and build one hell of a computer.

It sounds like this is just turning into a mac bashing thread.

You specifically prefaced that you didn't want this to be a Mac vs PC thread. Which I take to mean you would like to avoid general Mac bashing.

So far you've generally over-looked everything I've had to say, that directly pertains to programming in Mac. And instead have jumped directly do stating that Mac is all flash/bang, and you can't find nada on it.

Our forum alone has tons on it. I posted tons on it in this very thread. And take your own advise from the get go and don't turn this into a mac bashing thread. I'm the farthest from a Mac evangelist, and I even made some negative comments about XCode itself, as a biased opinion, with explanations why. All while staying on topic about development... but also pointing out that XCode is not the only programming environment and that others exist and are of high quality.

[jon.kiparsky]

I use a mac, but I don't think of myself as a mac user - I've been a unix user as long as I've used computers, and I'm still a Unix user - I write in vi and compile with the appropriate compiler, and this works on any POSIX machine. The main difference for me between using the mac and my linux laptop is that the mac makes slightly different choices about locating system files, and uses weird names for some of the basic directories. And the package manager is called "ports" instead of some pun on "apt"

I suppose I might play with XCode some time, but it's honestly never occurred to me to do so thus far, which is probably why I didn't notice your original question. If I started seeing interesting questions about mac OS topics, I'd probably be answering them.

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 22 October 2012 - 07:26 AM

[derrellgore]

I am not bashing Macs at all. Was actually very serious about getting one till I started researching. I am just surprised that the Mac community on the web doesn't seem more "programming" oriented. There are some big forums out there...like MAC RUMORS whom you mentioned. But they seems to be more about when is the new Macs coming out and speculating as to what features it will have.

I thought MACHEADS was a great documentary. I actually wanted to become part of this community. I miss the users groups of old which the Internet has destroyed.

I am not bashing Macs at all. Was actually very serious about getting one till I started researching. I am just surprised that the Mac community on the web doesn't seem more "programming" oriented. There are some big forums out there...like MAC RUMORS whom you mentioned. But they seems to be more about when is the new Macs coming out and speculating as to what features it will have.

I thought MACHEADS was a great documentary. I actually wanted to become part of this community. I miss the users groups of old which the Internet has destroyed.

[lordofduct]

Probably because programmers aren't mac oriented.

Programmers are programmer oriented.

Most, not all, but most programmers I know use multiple OSes. They may have one as their primary OS, but have experience with all, and are more concerned about what they are doing programming wise.

So I think you might be looking at it backwards.





And I stated that you were leaning towards mac bashing by bringing up stuff unrelated to your original topic. What does the price of a mac, recent mac store hype experience, and the sort, have to do with the IDE and language options on OSX? And sticking that next to the "mac support" you're receiving, and the "mac support" we found so easily but you couldn't, and it appears as if you're not following your initial statement.

And now I'm falling into the same trap.

Back on topic.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 22 October 2012 - 08:08 AM