Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

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#61 diegosendra  Icon User is offline

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:42 PM

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BTW, after re-reading this post, it came off with a far more aggressive tone than I intended. I don't mean any disrespect, I just get passionate about my arguments.

Edit: I remember another reason that came up: "our clients computers are too old to run .NET". That's a great argument. So if that's relevant, then by all means, use VB6.


Indeed, tell me when I sounded aggressive to receive an answer like this. At most, I was ironic but not aggressive like you.
I get your point, I am not saying you don't have reason about the the improvements made towards .NET, in fact, I know some .NET and I don't hate it and would eventually migrate everything to it. But is that we have dozens of programs made in VB6, basically data-base driven software, data-mining software, statistical software, even a Baccarat game sequences analyzer. VB6 never turned out its back, everything we wanted to code we was able to.

About the 'learning new things' argument, well, it's not about being 'trapped' in the past, but being ENOUGH BUSY IN THE PRESENT :)
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#62 Chris Boss  Icon User is offline

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:36 PM

There is good reason to view VB Classic aignificantly different than VB dot.net

Classic VB's end marks ....
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#63 Bitcoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:48 AM

Well some of you think vb6 is obsolete? then I believe you guys aren't putting upcoming programmer into consideration. Well first, programming languages don't get outdated and try to understand what I mean. For a beginner even BASIC not Visual Basic can be a good start because this allows you to understand the basics of a programming language from loops, to variables, functions, using conditions and logical operators, datatypes and lots more.

now, when a beginner understands this basic, he/she can move to a newer language the same applies to vb6.
If you already know how to use a language skilfully then I suggest you move to a newer one don't just jump from language to language.

Learning vb6 is never a complete waste of time here are my reasons
1. the professional edition can now be gotten free
2. investing in vb6 as starter saves you much time when you decide to move to vb.net
3. Learning vb6 the right way and becoming a guru in it will help you learn other programming languages faster and with greater ease
4. the beauty of automating several office applications using VBA which is very much similar to vb6 syntax
5. don't forget before VB.NET there ways and will ALWAYS BE VB6 - may be not. Thou vb.net is based on vb6. they have lots of similarities just a few difference

and just try this. have you ever written a simple math calculator in vb6? even thou you don't know vb.net just try coding the same calculator without reading any tutorial using your vb6 experience if you are smart (not neccessary) you'll find out that vb.net is just a new look of the Vb6 language.

Hope am not offending anybody?
and thanks to the dude who posted this question
saya bitcoder : :bananaman:
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#64 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:01 AM

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For a beginner even BASIC not Visual Basic can be a good start because this allows you to understand the basics of a programming language from loops, to variables, functions, using conditions and logical operators, datatypes and lots more.
Then why not draw your line there? why not vb4? QBASIC? If any language is good as another why stop until you hit the first?

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now, when a beginner understands this basic, he/she can move to a newer language the same applies to vb6.

.. or, you know, you learn the basics with a marketable language and kill two birds with one stone.

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Learning vb6 is never a complete waste of time here are my reasons
1. the professional edition can now be gotten free

That doesn't address the 'end of life' happened multiple years ago.

[quote]2. investing in vb6 as starter saves you much time when you decide to move to vb.net
.. or you know you take that time and just learn VB.NET up front where the majority of work (and active support) lies, and you can easily pickup vb6 later if you need to hit a legacy app.

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3. Learning vb6 the right way and becoming a guru in it will help you learn other programming languages faster and with greater ease

Source.

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4. the beauty of automating several office applications using VBA which is very much similar to vb6 syntax

VBA != VB6

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5. don't forget before VB.NET there ways and will ALWAYS BE VB6 - may be not. Thou vb.net is based on vb6. they have lots of similarities just a few difference

Again.. why? Let's assume the learning curve between VB6 and VB.NET is negligible. That means you are advocating learning a learning a legacy, sunsetted, and unsupported language over the current supported language where the market is currently focused on? That makes no sense when "putting upcoming programmer into consideration."

Why train them for a market that is relegated to legacy and _NOT_ the market that exists now? There are more career opportunities for .NET than VB6.. it just is. Learn the important, current day applicable, language first then back translate as needed.
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#65 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is online

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:09 AM

I disagree on almost all points.

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Well first, programming languages don't get outdated and try to understand what I mean. For a beginner even BASIC not Visual Basic can be a good start because this allows you to understand the basics of a programming language from loops, to variables, functions, using conditions and logical operators, datatypes and lots more.


Programming languages do get outdated. If you don't believe me, then you should go grab yourself a COBOL book and see how many modern programming paradigms you're going to learn. Relevance is important. VB6 is only relevant because of legacy applications and programmers unwilling to change (shocker, that's why COBOL is still relevant).

All those things that BASIC could teach, you could learn them just as easily with a more modern and useful language. Python comes to mind, as well as Ruby and even VB.NET.

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the professional edition can now be gotten free


I don't see the benefit of that. For learners, you don't need professional editions, and besides, many languages don't have "pro" versions. Again I point to Python and Ruby.

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investing in vb6 as starter saves you much time when you decide to move to vb.net


Investing in learning VB.NET from the beginning saves you even more time.

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Learning vb6 the right way and becoming a guru in it will help you learn other programming languages faster and with greater ease


Same argument as last time. Learning any language makes it easier to learn more.

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the beauty of automating several office applications using VBA which is very much similar to vb6 syntax


Can't argue with that, but I don't think that VBA is so hard to pick up that learning VB6 is essential to the process.

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don't forget before VB.NET there ways and will ALWAYS BE VB6 - may be not. Thou vb.net is based on vb6. they have lots of similarities just a few difference


Then why start with the obsolete language that will never be updated with new features? Start with the modern language with modern features and full support from MS, and if you need to do something in VB6, you'll already have a good base.



You're definitely not offending anyone. We're just passionate about our positions, and that's fine.

I just think that VB6 is outclassed in literally every area. There's no benefit that VB6 brings to the table that other languages don't, and there's the big downside of being unsupported and un-updated.
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#66 diegosendra  Icon User is offline

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:37 AM

Hi all

I said it enough times, what makes a good program is the PROGRAMER, not the LANGUAGE he/she uses. As a professional coder with over 20 years experience (yes, I started coding in 8088 ASM in 1994 and GWBASIC in 1992. Well I started coding in ZXSpectrum's Basic in 1987), I coded 2d games, I coded in Pascal 3.0, 5.0, 7.0, C, Quickbasic, Clipper 5.0 and 5.1. I did anything I wanted *always*; There's a tendency everywhere to follow the trend, which is wrong. It happens to the people and also happens to the programmers. I defy any new programmer today to code something in his latest language/latest db that a veteran like me couldn't do in something like Free Pascal, even looking in 132x50 columns text-mode and still work GREAT, and even be better, robust, more intuitive. I take it, come on... defy me

Visual Basic 6.0 is king. It's irrelevant if there's market for it, if you can get a job with it or not, if you can get money on it or not. We are talking of what you can do with a language, there's no argument if you can get a job or not coding in Cobol or Fortran or VB6. And yes, vb.net is FAR too difficult, it basically does the same as VB6, adding an unnecesary steep learning curve most of you don't have the time to go through. I managed to translate a complex data-mining software (scraper) I did in VB6 into Vb.net. Result: the same thing, maybe a better written EXE, but does your customers care about the quality of the exes your language creates or what your program actually helps them to SOLVE their problems? Did the .net scraper was a better scraper than what it was in VB6 ? Absolutely NOT

We, programmers and users alike, focus should back in the core thing, GUI, usability, features. See an example like Far Manager. (Google it). It's a Windows explorer replacement, it BEATS it, it's totally text-mode based. It beats Windows Explorer so much that it simply couldn't be compared. And we are using Explorer since 1995, nearly 20 yeras using something wrong and mediocre. And even being Far Manager something SUPERB it doesn't **** even compare with 1982's Xtree Gold from Execute Systems, made for DOS **** .So this puts out a question: Was it really necessary filling the screen with one window on top of the other, was it necessary a task bar, was it necessary switching from the lovely text-mode to the 16 million colors? And if it was, then explain me why something made in 1982 like Xtree Gold still beats any Graphic-based file browser... in every way, usability, intuitiveness, SPEED (this program ran in 8mhz computers and STILL IS FASTER than my Explorer here running on my Pentium 1 ghz/1ghz RAM!!!)

Programmers get brainwashed using what the trend says and those 3-top corporation tells everybody the market is going through. Now it's all about tablets, pads, touchscrens and all the holy jumping monkeys on the screen. Now is anybody actually focusing in creating GREAT APPLICATIONS that could SOLVE PEOPLE PROBLEMS? i.e. it's all about tablets, and "tablets replacing PC".... Then tablets should offer a way to input TEXT that doesn't SUCK as they actually do through their software-based keyboards! Oh wait, "but you can maybe plug a keyword and a mouse to the tablet" ...Then the same question: was it THEN any necessary switching from the PC when I Actually need a keyboard and a mouse to even USE a tablet for something else other to listen music or watch a vid?

Back to the question, you can do absolutely anything you want in VB6. Period. There's no need even for VB6, VB4 and VB5 work same way good, maybe VB6 is more stable. In fact, you can still make great software in your Borland C, or Pascal, as long as you can get it compiled to run as a 32-bit EXE.

And let's do the world a favor, all of us: Don't waste the time learning new language every week, that WILL NOT make you a better programmer! You'd better invest months developing something that could help the world doing their daily stuff better and more intuitive. Don't follow the trend, don't be a sheep

Regards
Diego Sendra
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#67 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:42 AM

So I get it - the world should have stopped at text based entry. Drew the line there and said "here - no farther". Got it.

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Visual Basic 6.0 is king. It's irrelevant if there's market for it, if you can get a job with it or not, if you can get money on it or not.

I would disagree quite heartily. If you are going into the industry and care to put food on your table, and a roof over your head, I do believe having a market for your language of choice is important.. Else you end up be the crazy homeless guy ranting about the beauty of Piet and Brainfuck trump the irrational needs of mobile platforms, web development, or basic CRUD.
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#68 diegosendra  Icon User is offline

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:58 AM

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If you are going into the industry and care to put food on your table, and a roof over your head, I do believe having a market for your language of choice is important.. Else you end up be the crazy homeless guy ranting about the beauty of Piet and Brainfuck trump the irrational needs of mobile platforms, web development, or basic CRUD.


My friend, I am feeding my wife and my kid since years now coding in VB 6 for my more than 200 customers worlwide. 90% of what I do are VB 6-based apps that run on their XP, W7, Vista and W8

My customers care that the programs I do for them actually SOLVE THEM THEIR PROBLEMS
And believe me, they solve them
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#69 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:13 AM

Right.. and folks just starting out, who don't have the oodles of experience and established business are to do what then? Flounder and fight some sort of bizarre current for what? To shake their fist at the tide of mobile/gui development and live off someone else's desired morale victory? Yup.. sounds right.
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#70 diegosendra  Icon User is offline

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:35 AM

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Else you end up be the crazy homeless guy ranting about the beauty of Piet and Brainfuck trump the irrational needs of mobile platforms, web development, or basic CRUD.


Oh yes, you couldn't have said it BETTER! There's a totally "IRRATIONAL NEED" FOR MOBILE-BASED COMPUTING! Web development is slow and time-consuming for developers, i.e. there's no compilers for PHP or ASP, you have to have your 'SLOW BROWSER' to render the code. But we are not talking of internet, internet is good and some form of web development is needed. Now, of course, I totally disagree with the dozens of scripting languages available to do basically the same thing I could do in ASP 3.0 in 1999, or a few years later, in PHP. Why all the CMS-madness? Every site generated with a CMS is a cheap and IDENTICAL to the next one that is being created tomorrow, there's no originallity anymore

Responsiveness? To hell with that! Who said that pages have to be browsed in mobile and desktop alike? Who said you had to carry your whole office in your tablet when you go OUTSIDE OF THE OFFICE to be 100% connected to the Internet the whole day? Who said we need tablets in the first place? To do what, are we more happy or more productive using a tablet than what we can do on our desktop? In fact, can you ACTUALLY do any work on a table other than replying your social media posts, listening to your music or watching a vid? Tell me, wasn't you able to listen to music back in 1994 in your CD Player while going on the bus to study or work? I was... I still can if I wanted, but I prefer watching the beautiness of life rather than being brain-stormed every minute by a device. Talk about the "visions of the future" where some illuminated minds tell us everybody where the technology is going on. I don't want a future where I will see screens everywhere, walls, car windows, everywhere, dropping notifications, knowing who I am and giving me directions and guidance. I guide myself by myself

Talk about wearable technology... a pile of non-sense. Glasses that tell me WHAT THE WORLD IS LIKE when I look into an object? Augmented reality? And why do you have a memory in your brain that can actually remind you what you are watching in the real life actually is instead of having a talking parrot, (sorry glasses), telling you what's life about?

Smart watches? Do you know what being smart actually is? Don't seeing the time it is on the watch, unless strictly necessary! I don't need a watch that talks me like a parrot telling me where the next book shop is located on the street. I want to use my memory! I have it in my brain for a reason

I am not ranting dude! I am telling you that everything created from 1995 onwards was nearly useless, a total waste of time to brainwash the world. And the main reason was (and still is) keeping two companies busy while trying to stay at the top of the wave, forcing me and you and the whole world to dance around their ambition

Give me a break !
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#71 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is online

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:43 AM

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Don't waste the time learning new language every week...Don't follow the trend, don't be a sheep


I don't even know how to respond to that. Nobody has suggested that. I'm suggesting that for newbies, picking a modern, well-supported language is the smart route. VB6 will never get another update, never get patched, never get new features, and is outclassed and outmatched at literally anything it can do.

I'm happy you're able to make a great living doing VB6. That's fine. There's millions of legacy applications written in VB6 that need support. But I firmly believe that every new application made in VB6 is one that should have been done in a well-supported language that still gets security updates and such.

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Visual Basic 6.0 is king. It's irrelevant if there's market for it, if you can get a job with it or not, if you can get money on it or not. We are talking of what you can do with a language, there's no argument if you can get a job or not coding in Cobol or Fortran or VB6. And yes, vb.net is FAR too difficult, it basically does the same as VB6, adding an unnecesary steep learning curve most of you don't have the time to go through.


Emphasis mine. I just have to say, you're the kind of programmer I was talking about earlier. VB.NET isn't objectively more difficult. You believe it is because you already knew VB6, but there's no actual proof that one is easier than the other. I can objectively prove that VB.NET is more useful (because I can use it for not just windows applications, but for web, windows store, windows service, WCF, WPF, ASP.NET MVC, VSTO...the list goes on. VB6 can't do the vast majority of that).

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maybe a better written EXE, but does your customers care about the quality of the exes


Of course the customer doesn't. But you sure as hell should. "Better" means more readable, more maintainable, and because of that, a faster turnaround time on bug fixes and feature releases, which your client certainly does care about.




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I am not ranting dude! I am telling you that everything created from 1995 onwards was nearly useless, a total waste of time to brainwash the world.


Lol. I'm done taking you seriously. You're exactly the kind of "stuck in the past" person I was describing.
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#72 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:53 AM

Agreed.. at this point I'll consider it trolling.. less humorous version of swampie.
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#73 diegosendra  Icon User is offline

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 12:04 PM

In reply to <b>modi123_1 </b>, well, there's a very <b>*VERY*</b> wrong time in history to start coding! It is since 1995 onwards, when someone illuminated said putting one windows on top of the other, swithing from single task to multi-task and having a mouse replacing the keyboard was ESSENTIAL to use a computer or it couldn't be used anymore! Yes, computers for everyone, from the engineer to the housewive to find her receipts on the net! From that, it was everything a whole going back in terms of progress instead of being the opposite. Computers are not for everybody, as THAT UNDERMINES THE PROFESSION. It seems it's the same a kid coding from his room in Sri Lanka, who can actually code a WP site in 1 day than a coder like me with years of experience. Yes, it's "the same" to the eye of a customer who's looking for budget. This computing masiveness UNDERMINE THE PROGRAMMING PROFESSION. And I couldn't shout it out louder

No, I wouldn't recommend any young guy today to invest one single minute coding; I am talking about money. They can make more money cutting grass door by door than what they can actually do, for example, freelancing. i.e. considering the impact of CMS as outlined above, you couldn't charge a CMS as much as you charged 10 years ago when you did it in ASP or PHP with your own libraries/modules. Every new CMS-based site is identical to the previous one, and the next one your neighbour will do as it uses the same WP, Joomla engine or whatever you call it. I used to charge $650 to $800 USD for any ASP-based site back in 2007, to give you an example. They worked great, they have great database design, they did a lot of things, they were basically software running on the browser. All of that tends to be blur now, there's a concept that a site is a blog, that everything is basically a contact us form, some well SEO-friendly site your customer can edit in the backend and that's it. That's what customer expects, and they expect paying $100 instead of $800, since the next indian or pakistani will do it for $100 from their rooms
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#74 diegosendra  Icon User is offline

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 12:17 PM

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You're exactly the kind of "stuck in the past" person I was describing.


And how much I love being "stuck" on the past!!! I'd love going even more way back, back to Turbo Pascal 3 days, I did brilliant programs back in the day. I'd love going back to Quickbasic, back to 1991. I'd love getting back to C as I did in 1997 and all the things I did, from games to anything. I used to ACTUALLY ENJOY coding back then. I simply loved text-column based computing, the world shouldn't move from there, it was senseless and a nightmare for coders from there ONWARDS to our days

I know people that completed their careers in 1996 to find out that *EVERYTHING* they've learned on school was a waste of time and that they couldn't be employed without knowing the 'Visual languages', I am talking of Pascal, C, Clipper and Fortran because a bunch of illuminated people told the world that DOS was dead and 'multi-tasking was the shit!'. Tell me another profession in the world that can be as unfair as this one where you conclude your studies and you can't get a living from what you studied in 5 years because someone else decision. I know people that couldn't take it and simply gave a whole fuck on the career and started back into something else, where they felt respected.
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#75 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Is learning VB6 now a complete waste of time?

Posted 27 November 2013 - 12:19 PM

You are swampy, aren't you?
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